"gogogo" might make me quit this game.

[Nyarlha]

Of course this all assumes single pulls only add five minutes, which isn't the case with higher level dungeons. Plenty of Stormblood and Shadowbringers dungeons are add as much as ten minutes if you're single pulling.

And, usually, when you end up in a single pulling party, there might also be other issues on top of the single pulling that'd lengthen the run.

[Ayche]

The fact that pull sizes can be controlled by the tank is thankfully still left as an option in dungeons for us players.
Think of it as a sign of confidence by the dev team that we, as a community, can at least socially negotiate what kind of pulls everyone wants to on by-party basis.
So please, do not default to assuming the worst. Because they do have all the power to just force one-size-fits-all solution if the community cannot even be made responsible to handle that kind of basic communication challenge.

[Yeol]

From my understanding, this is less about pull size and more about speed.

OP, people are fast because it is the most effective way to maximize their reward. The less time spent to get the reward the better. This is human nature. They want the fastest way to achieve something.

Just make dungeons harder. Make trash hit harder and have more health. Problem solved. If players only have one option/speed to go through dungeons we won't have to be so divided on how to proceed.

Dungeons are easy by design. They have to be farm-friendly. People are going to be spamming dungeons for EXP. Leveling multiple jobs. Some will be spamming them for dailies (Expert dungeons). You don't want spammable content to be hard.

Players falling behind could be due to many reasons:
1- They are slow at turns. They don't know where the next turn is or the exit to the next room.
2- As a caster/ranged they always stay very far behind even when attacking. They can step closer when they see mobs/bosses dying. So they can move with the rest of the party to the next pack.
3- Not using sprint properly. Running into walls or running sideways a lot instead of a straight line. They're not using it in alignment with the tank, but instead using it as a catchup button.

These are what I've mostly noticed with slow players in my parties.

[Absurdity]

Dungeons are easy by design. They have to be farm-friendly. People are going to be spamming dungeons for EXP. Leveling multiple jobs. Some will be spamming them for dailies (Expert dungeons). You don't want spammable content to be hard.

This is where I would have to disagree, they do not need to be easy, they just need to appropriately reward you for the time/effort invested. If dungeons were to become harder the simple solution is to increase the gains per dungeon. Difficult dungeons would reward you with more exp and more tomestones per dungeon, leading to basically the same amount of time invested but also less spam.

[Allegor]

This is where I would have to disagree, they do not need to be easy, they just need to appropriately reward you for the time/effort invested. If dungeons were to become harder the simple solution is to increase the gains per dungeon. Difficult dungeons would reward you with more exp and more tomestones per dungeon, leading to basically the same amount of time invested but also less spam.

No, they're intentionally easy so they're accessible, and by 'accessible' they mean (no offense to anyone) "so easy a literal toddler can go through it" - not patronizing at all

[ForteNightshade]

No, they're intentionally easy so they're accessible, and by 'accessible' they mean (no offense to anyone) "so easy a literal toddler can go through it" - not patronizing at all

Which is, ironically, part of the problem. Making dungeons essentially braindead encourages the speed mentality because not only are they incredibly boring otherwise, but the lack of direct feedback to discourage players from wall pulling doesn't exist. Case in point, you'll rarely see Aurum Vale being wall pulled. Why? Between the environmental hazard and mob density makes it not worth the risk. If dungeons as a whole were designed with this intent, mass pulling wouldn't be nearly as common. Likewise, priority mobs would further discourage wall pulling as, once again, the risk outweighs the benefits.

In other words, in the dev team's pursuit of constant accessibility, they went so far in the opposite direction as to incentivize a mentality those players who benefit from the accessibility actively dislike.

[kaynide]

Which is, ironically, part of the problem. Making dungeons essentially braindead encourages the speed mentality because not only are they incredibly boring otherwise, but the lack of direct feedback to discourage players from wall pulling doesn't exist. Case in point, you'll rarely see Aurum Vale being wall pulled. Why? Between the environmental hazard and mob density makes it not worth the risk. If dungeons as a whole were designed with this intent, mass pulling wouldn't be nearly as common. Likewise, priority mobs would further discourage wall pulling as, once again, the risk outweighs the benefits.

In other words, in the dev team's pursuit of constant accessibility, they went so far in the opposite direction as to incentivize a mentality those players who benefit from the accessibility actively dislike.

I personally would love to see more open spaces like Aurum Vale in dungeons. Basically large rooms where you simply don’t need to kill everything in the room. You could blitz through and suffer through a large pack, or stealth by and have less mobs to deal with. Both ways can be good fun and if bored you can always try something crazy in such a situation.

[Yeol]

This is where I would have to disagree, they do not need to be easy, they just need to appropriately reward you for the time/effort invested. If dungeons were to become harder the simple solution is to increase the gains per dungeon. Difficult dungeons would reward you with more exp and more tomestones per dungeon, leading to basically the same amount of time invested but also less spam.

The difficulty really doesn't matter. It's the duration (time/rewards). This can be true to both easy and hard content.

Imagine the Moogle treasure event, people can farm the hardest content, but they don't. They go for the fasters way to farm. It's always time > difficulty. People will always try to figure out the easiest and fastest way to farm.

You can have an easy dungeon that takes 15 minutes to clear with X rewards. And a harder version of it that takes 30 minutes to clear with X*2 rewards. This doesn't fix anything. This still means that the vast majority of players will pick the easier version over the harder version.

Why? There is the risk factor. You're more likely to make mistakes that can affect the clear time in a harder dungeon. Which in result leads to getting less reward from the harder dungeon compared to a group that is consistently farming the easier one.

Increasing the harder dungeon rewards to be more than double the normal one doesn't fix it either. Because as you said, more rewards = more time. Don't forget higher risk factor as well. Else you'll be handing rewards for no effort.

[Y2K21]

I just go by if my tank or healer has a sprout next to their name.

[Ath192]

The difficulty really doesn't matter. It's the duration (time/rewards). This can be true to both easy and hard content.

Imagine the Moogle treasure event, people can farm the hardest content, but they don't. They go for the fasters way to farm. It's always time > difficulty. People will always try to figure out the easiest and fastest way to farm.

You can have an easy dungeon that takes 15 minutes to clear with X rewards. And a harder version of it that takes 30 minutes to clear with X*2 rewards. This doesn't fix anything. This still means that the vast majority of players will pick the easier version over the harder version.

Why? There is the risk factor. You're more likely to make mistakes that can affect the clear time in a harder dungeon. Which in result leads to getting less reward from the harder dungeon compared to a group that is consistently farming the easier one.

Increasing the harder dungeon rewards to be more than double the normal one doesn't fix it either. Because as you said, more rewards = more time. Don't forget higher risk factor as well. Else you'll be handing rewards for no effort.

But it doesn’t matter because they can find ways to incentivize completing the harder dungeons. If you queue for a roulette and quit a full party you lose the roulette bonus. Simple, of course if someone else quits you are free to go, it wasn’t you trying to cheese it. If you leave mentor roulette with a full party, you lose 24 hours of the mentor roulette.

If you are grinding relic stuff, of course people are going to take the easy route, that’s okay. But the point being is that people only cheese things because they can. If the punishments for cheesing harder content are deterrent enough it wouldn’t happen. And you also wouldn’t get people fishing for an easy clear either, because they know what they’re signing up for.

In other words, not only are the dungeons ridiculously easy but the punishments for abandoning the few slightly harder ones almost non existent. Yeah, I can see that combination bringing out super toxic attitudes.

Whereas if stuff is hard and you are STUCK because abandoning it isn’t worth it you may as well be nice and get involved so you can get through it.

This super easy design brings out the toxicity people are trying to avoid in my opinion.