"gogogo" might make me quit this game.

[Allegor]

This is where I would have to disagree, they do not need to be easy, they just need to appropriately reward you for the time/effort invested. If dungeons were to become harder the simple solution is to increase the gains per dungeon. Difficult dungeons would reward you with more exp and more tomestones per dungeon, leading to basically the same amount of time invested but also less spam.

No, they're intentionally easy so they're accessible, and by 'accessible' they mean (no offense to anyone) "so easy a literal toddler can go through it" - not patronizing at all

[ForteNightshade]

No, they're intentionally easy so they're accessible, and by 'accessible' they mean (no offense to anyone) "so easy a literal toddler can go through it" - not patronizing at all

Which is, ironically, part of the problem. Making dungeons essentially braindead encourages the speed mentality because not only are they incredibly boring otherwise, but the lack of direct feedback to discourage players from wall pulling doesn't exist. Case in point, you'll rarely see Aurum Vale being wall pulled. Why? Between the environmental hazard and mob density makes it not worth the risk. If dungeons as a whole were designed with this intent, mass pulling wouldn't be nearly as common. Likewise, priority mobs would further discourage wall pulling as, once again, the risk outweighs the benefits.

In other words, in the dev team's pursuit of constant accessibility, they went so far in the opposite direction as to incentivize a mentality those players who benefit from the accessibility actively dislike.

[kaynide]

Which is, ironically, part of the problem. Making dungeons essentially braindead encourages the speed mentality because not only are they incredibly boring otherwise, but the lack of direct feedback to discourage players from wall pulling doesn't exist. Case in point, you'll rarely see Aurum Vale being wall pulled. Why? Between the environmental hazard and mob density makes it not worth the risk. If dungeons as a whole were designed with this intent, mass pulling wouldn't be nearly as common. Likewise, priority mobs would further discourage wall pulling as, once again, the risk outweighs the benefits.

In other words, in the dev team's pursuit of constant accessibility, they went so far in the opposite direction as to incentivize a mentality those players who benefit from the accessibility actively dislike.

I personally would love to see more open spaces like Aurum Vale in dungeons. Basically large rooms where you simply don’t need to kill everything in the room. You could blitz through and suffer through a large pack, or stealth by and have less mobs to deal with. Both ways can be good fun and if bored you can always try something crazy in such a situation.

[SturmChurro]

Which is, ironically, part of the problem. Making dungeons essentially braindead encourages the speed mentality because not only are they incredibly boring otherwise, but the lack of direct feedback to discourage players from wall pulling doesn't exist. Case in point, you'll rarely see Aurum Vale being wall pulled. Why? Between the environmental hazard and mob density makes it not worth the risk. If dungeons as a whole were designed with this intent, mass pulling wouldn't be nearly as common. Likewise, priority mobs would further discourage wall pulling as, once again, the risk outweighs the benefits.

In other words, in the dev team's pursuit of constant accessibility, they went so far in the opposite direction as to incentivize a mentality those players who benefit from the accessibility actively dislike.

The only room that can't be full pulled is the first one though. Aurum Vale is so highly exaggerated in difficulty. The first pull can be incredibly easy, like literally straight through. People just need to know where (not) to stand and where to pull. Now there are some dungeons with mobs that can't be avoided, a full pull in one of those is usually a wipe with a pug party. There is never a reason to do a full pull in something like Aurum Vale's first room, like no real reason.

[ForteNightshade]

The only room that can't be full pulled is the first one though. Aurum Vale is so highly exaggerated in difficulty. The first pull can be incredibly easy, like literally straight through. People just need to know where (not) to stand and where to pull. Now there are some dungeons with mobs that can't be avoided, a full pull in one of those is usually a wipe with a pug party. There is never a reason to do a full pull in something like Aurum Vale's first room, like no real reason.

I don't disagree but I used Aurum Vale more for example sake. Regardless of the justification, it's among the very few dungeons people are cautious towards. That one room scares people more than every single dungeon released in Stormblood and Shadowbringers. Which speaks volumes to have incredibly faceroll they've become. Even just putting that one "treasure room" of sorts in each dungeon would actually make them more interesting, albeit not by much.

Goes to show just how low a bar we have nowadays, doesn't it?