A request for Endwalker Dungeons (No more Undertuned)

[Deliciou5]

Or leave the game in droves.

What makes you think they wouldn't adapt to the learning curve?

[DPZ2]

What makes you think they wouldn't adapt to the learning curve?

Experience with a number of MMOs and their predecessors over the last 35 years.

Anecdotal knowledge of the reasons in-game friends play (and struggle) with the game.

Memories of all of the massive threads about the large number of players who need to 'git gud' in these forums (most written with a "why don't they just leave, already?" attitude)

[Deliciou5]

Experience with a number of MMOs and their predecessors over the last 35 years.

Anecdotal knowledge of the reasons in-game friends play (and struggle) with the game.

Memories of all of the massive threads about the large number of players who need to 'git gud' in these forums (most written with a "why don't they just leave, already?" attitude)

That doesn't answer my question at all.

Do you even know what a learning curve is?

You act like their is going to be a toxic person every party when most wouldn't have one. Are you trolling?

[DPZ2]

That doesn't answer my question at all.

Do you even know what a learning curve is?

Yes, I know what a learning curve is. I also know that the place on that curve where the major drop-off for players begins is much lower than the more gifted players in this game assume. That knowledge comes from the first item I listed: "Experience". That knowledge comes from the second item I listed, albeit anecdotal evidence is not proof, but has been enough for me to see any number of in-game friends and acquaintances drop out over the last 7 years because that next step was simply too hard. That knowledge comes from the last item I listed as well - the attitude that, with just a little more effort on their part, lazy players wouldn't be so bad.

An MMO isn't a single-player game where you can challenge the game on 'easy' through 'torture' modes. It requires a base level of challenge to encourage people who are there for the crafting or role play or story without preventing them from completing the current storyline. That's how MMOs have been designed for the last 15 years or so. It's been a business success since the day World of Warcraft beta came out.

[Deliciou5]

Yes, I know what a learning curve is. I also know that the place on that curve where the major drop-off for players begins is much lower than the more gifted players in this game assume. That knowledge comes from the first item I listed: "Experience". That knowledge comes from the second item I listed, albeit anecdotal evidence is not proof, but has been enough for me to see any number of in-game friends and acquaintances drop out over the last 7 years because that next step was simply too hard. That knowledge comes from the last item I listed as well - the attitude that, with just a little more effort on their part, lazy players wouldn't be so bad.

An MMO isn't a single-player game where you can challenge the game on 'easy' through 'torture' modes. It requires a base level of challenge to encourage people who are there for the crafting or role play or story without preventing them from completing the current storyline. That's how MMOs have been designed for the last 15 years or so. It's been a business success since the day World of Warcraft beta came out.

Learning curves are there to teach players how to play the game, by ramping up difficulty slowly.

Under your logic any form of difficulty at all would make them quit which is not the case since the game is already brain dead easy throughout it's storyline and requires almost no effort from the player.

You have no idea how much harder it would be .....yet any difficulty increase at all according to you would make them quit.

I am sorry but you just don't know what you are talking about, you couldn't....we are speaking in hypothetical increase which is more or less to whatever you say it is.

It's just a blanket statement based on your assumptions.

If it only gradually gets harder through a learning curve then it wouldn't be issue since end game dungeons are supposed to be harder right?

They wouldn't get to level 80 main story quest loving it the whole way through then quit on the way to 90 main story quest after they came this far, if they were going to quit the game would be during ARR or the more boring parts of the game...not after the story hooked them at 80+.

[ItMe]

Learning curves are there to teach players how to play the game, by ramping up difficulty slowly.

Under your logic any form of difficulty at all would make them quit which is not the case since the game is already brain dead easy throughout it's storyline and requires almost no effort from the player.

[...]

If it only gradually gets harder through a learning curve then it wouldn't be issue since end game dungeons are supposed to be harder right?

But a curve would stop some from seeing through FF14's highly regarded story, and that is something they've shown to prioritize over making each of its many steps challenging.

Are dungeons too easy?
Maybe. That's why we're in this thread after all lol.

Will we ever get a "proper" difficulty curve?
I don't think so. Especially not with the ever ballooning amount of story people need to play through before they're caught up.
It might be more reasonable to begin asking for more challenge in content outside the MSQ, because the more I think about it the more it seems that's the last place they'll raise the bar.



Not to mention... how could a difficulty curve even be maintained when they keep releasing more and more story?

They can't just keep making each expac harder. That'll lead to jacked up difficulty problems real fast.

But they also can't just go back and flatten the curve for earlier content, there's too much to rebalance (let alone to re-rebalance with each expac). And that would lead to other issues with current content still never getting harder AND people being upset because the older stuff they liked has been nerfed. At least the way we are going now most content can still be enjoyed about as challenging as it was on release with min iLVL.

[Shurrikhan]

But a curve would stop some from seeing through FF14's highly regarded story, and that is something they've shown to prioritize over making each of its many steps challenging.
...
Will we ever get a "proper" difficulty curve?
I don't think so. Especially not with the ever ballooning amount of story people need to play through before they're caught up.

There's nothing about the plot that'd prevent a "proper" difficulty curve. That barely noticeable increase, each time, in difficulty, is exactly what makes a difficulty curve "proper", after all.

The relationship is quite the opposite: the more requisite steps, the more "stuff to do" you can allow from the endgame experience without making any single step too difficult.

And, similarly, the more engagement you center only outside of the MSQ, the larger a gap you create between player "types" and the more accordant toxicity you stimulate.

[ssunny2008]

But a curve would stop some from seeing through FF14's highly regarded story, and that is something they've shown to prioritize over making each of its many steps challenging.

Are dungeons too easy?
Maybe. That's why we're in this thread after all lol.

Will we ever get a "proper" difficulty curve?
I don't think so. Especially not with the ever ballooning amount of story people need to play through before they're caught up.
It might be more reasonable to begin asking for more challenge in content outside the MSQ, because the more I think about it the more it seems that's the last place they'll raise the bar.

SE should copy&paste some systems from other games and the issues are solved.

- Get ride of dungeons in the MSQ.
- Make them alternate content with a little sidestory and if you´re able to finish them, you´ll get rare gear.
- Use the rare gear to have an easier life in your MSQ.

And for the endgame:

- Create hardcore dungeons
- The loot should be the first gear - step to enter savage raids, not the normal raid coin bs.

It would solve many issues. We would´ve a MSQ with a littlelearning curve. This curve increases with the normal dungeons and you´ll get rewarded. In the endgame you get prepared for savage content with the next step of the learning curve and gear.

And making every expansion harder wouldn´t be a case. Mechanics should be slightly different and you need better gear. The difficulty is to get used to new things and to grind new gear, MSQ would stay as it is. The current geargrind is just way too simple and all fights follow strict patterns. The loot in dungeons is not relevant and any tank / healer can solo clear everything. This is just dumb.

[Shurrikhan]

Memories of all of the massive threads about the large number of players who need to 'git gud' in these forums (most written with a "why don't they just leave, already?" attitude)

Yes, let's ignore that those were in response to people refusing to AoE, use CDs, etc., rather than anything remotely difficult, and the latter attitude was reserved for those who stubbornly insisted that the game should change only to suit their insistence on not engaging with the game.