A request for Endwalker Dungeons (No more Undertuned)

[Aelin_Ashryver]

I was watching Preach talk about how he is enjoying the <50 dungeons because they have all these little extra mechanics to do and side areas to explore and discover and how he was excited to see how it would improve. And all I could think was how sad I was because all they did was remove those nice little extra things in favour of making a big corridor of trash boss trash boss trash boss. Because people seemingly couldn't deal with taking a wrong turn on their first run I guess? Shame. I wish they would bring back the exploring to dungeons. Because as they stand now they are just so linear and dull. The story they are in, what you see is all nice sure. But I would like to actually have something to discover, to get lost and find my way etc. FFXIV really doesn't have much in the way of exploring at all honestly and it's sad.

[Deceptus]

Can we PLEASE not get undertuned dungeons anymore? Matoyas Relict comes to mind. This is just, in my opinion, incredibly boring. Everything dies pretty much immediately and there isn't any serious risk. That's all.

Thanks for coming to my Talk.

Dungeons aren't undertuned, we're overgeared for them.

Wait until the next expansion hits and the leveling dungeons will hit tanks like a truck, especially if they're not keeping their gear up to date.

[aveyond-dreams]

If you want a dungeon you can explore and get meaningful rewards for doing so, play deep dungeon. That way we can have levelling dungeons for a more cinematic story experience/tunnel and deep dungeons for people who want to explore. Side areas in regular dungeons only have trash mobs (that will no longer give exp) or chests that have potions in them.

[Arkdra]

I was watching Preach talk about how he is enjoying the <50 dungeons because they have all these little extra mechanics to do and side areas to explore and discover and how he was excited to see how it would improve. And all I could think was how sad I was because all they did was remove those nice little extra things in favour of making a big corridor of trash boss trash boss trash boss. Because people seemingly couldn't deal with taking a wrong turn on their first run I guess? Shame. I wish they would bring back the exploring to dungeons. Because as they stand now they are just so linear and dull. The story they are in, what you see is all nice sure. But I would like to actually have something to discover, to get lost and find my way etc. FFXIV really doesn't have much in the way of exploring at all honestly and it's sad.

Because they aren't nice. They are cool exactly once and then a headache every other time thereafter. I do not understand this sentiment. What is so exciting about your tank getting lost and taking a wrong turn in totorak and your reward is... extra boring trash in one of the worst dungeons in the game? And practically, all those side paths may as well not exist because people will figure out the fastest means through a place and that trickles down pretty quick through the games playerbase. People had Qarn, Darkhold, Totorak and Cutters cry figured out by the end of the first month of ARR launch and you'd almost never blunder down one of those side routes anyway, at which point they don't serve any purpose.

Same deal with the Qarn puzzle. Like I think it's neat but the reality isn't 4 sprouts staring at the scales intently, trying to solve the puzzle, it's someone checking a wiki for the answer or someone that has already done it and knows the answer. The little mystique these things grant on first encountering them is not worth the tedium they produce on repeat encounters in the future.

[RitsukoSonoda]

If you want a dungeon you can explore and get meaningful rewards for doing so, play deep dungeon. That way we can have levelling dungeons for a more cinematic story experience/tunnel and deep dungeons for people who want to explore. Side areas in regular dungeons only have trash mobs (that will no longer give exp) or chests that have potions in them.

Majority of people don't "explore" deep dungeons. They're just used as a leveling tool to get exp on DoW/DoM jobs. As such it's basically rush rush rush to get to the boss asap.

They could change the formula going forward to have side areas either contain more loot chests or mechanics that would make later parts of the duty easier. In the case of the latter it would be a choice of taking the time to do it the easy way or clenching your cheeks as you try running straight to the end.

[Kyrj]

While I do understand the desire for more challenging, lower player count content - regular roulette (despite being called expert roulette) will not be the place it is added. I know people don't like when other MMOs are referenced, but the early heroic dungeons in World of Warcraft's cataclysm expansion tried to bring back more challenging mechanics to its dungeon content and what happened was a tier of content that couldn't be completed by casuals, players sitting in queues for 40 minutes for a one-in-five chance of being able to clear the assigned dungeon.

The developer team has said in the past that they want dungeon content to be easily accessible to all the player base, which is a big part of why it isn't particularly challenging. The average skill level of players is surprisingly low.

Cata heroics I think were the right way to go for Blizzard. The problem came from coming out of WotLK where we were face rolling heroics and ignoring mechanics left and right. People got used to that and the second something actually posed a threat and they had to read a mechanic, they started to cry. It's why WoW is the way it is now.

But idk how much harder they can make dungeons. They reuse the same mechanics over and over and over so much so that nothing seems like a curveball anymore. Even if you do get hit by something new it barely hurts and it's pretty clear what you have to do to avoid it since SE pretty much spells it out for you.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Cata heroics I think were the right way to go for Blizzard. The problem came from coming out of WotLK where we were face rolling heroics and ignoring mechanics left and right. People got used to that and the second something actually posed a threat and they had to read a mechanic, they started to cry. It's why WoW is the way it is now.

But idk how much harder they can make dungeons. They reuse the same mechanics over and over and over so much so that nothing seems like a curveball anymore. Even if you do get hit by something new it barely hurts and it's pretty clear what you have to do to avoid it since SE pretty much spells it out for you.

This game has already had it's share of people crying because they had to do mechanics. In HW and SB there were 8 player duties that were nerfed due to players claiming it "gated" content because they were failing it repeatedly due to people wanting to be carried and basically refusing to grow as a player. They'd also nerfed a number of mechanic centered solo MSQ duties as well after people started listing every condition they could find on web md they could claim as an excuse to why they are incapable of doing a mechanic.

[ItMe]

Because they aren't nice. They are cool exactly once and then a headache every other time thereafter. I do not understand this sentiment. What is so exciting about your tank getting lost and taking a wrong turn in totorak and your reward is... extra boring trash in one of the worst dungeons in the game? And practically, all those side paths may as well not exist because people will figure out the fastest means through a place and that trickles down pretty quick through the games playerbase. People had Qarn, Darkhold, Totorak and Cutters cry figured out by the end of the first month of ARR launch and you'd almost never blunder down one of those side routes anyway, at which point they don't serve any purpose.

Same deal with the Qarn puzzle. Like I think it's neat but the reality isn't 4 sprouts staring at the scales intently, trying to solve the puzzle, it's someone checking a wiki for the answer or someone that has already done it and knows the answer. The little mystique these things grant on first encountering them is not worth the tedium they produce on repeat encounters in the future.

Majority of people don't "explore" deep dungeons. They're just used as a leveling tool to get exp on DoW/DoM jobs. As such it's basically rush rush rush to get to the boss asap.

So what I'm getting from this whole conversation is: for content in FF14 to be capable of supporting quality exploration... it needs to both be decoupled from levelling and needs to (somehow) discourage players from running it repeatedly (thus reducing the desire for it to be streamlined).

What kind of content like this would they be able to make?

[Roda]

Deep dungeon's lack of exploration participation isn't because it's leveling content.

People don't explore it because "what's at the end of this hallway" is ALWAYS answered by "a square room with a handful of mobs."

The only new scenery or encounters are experienced through advancing through the levels, which means it's just a slightly fancier straight hallway.

[Nikki]

Agreed. Everything in this game, except for a few things like savages and extremes for example is just WAY to easy, like cellphone level of easy, like kids game easy. Please make normal and hard dungeons at least twice as hard. Also: trash mobs shouldn't exist, please make trash mobs actually require a little bit a of tactic, care to pull, and give them some dangerous AOEs, nothing boss level, but make "trash" dungeon bosses a challenge, be creative, otherwise: why bother?

No thanks. I am casual player and I don't want to get stuck in dugeon trying to complete MSQ
Not all of us live in this game. We got life outside.