Is anyone else concerned about 6.0 Summoner?

[ChazNatlo]

I couldn't care less either way about the direction jobs are going, complex or easy. I'm neither a casual nor an hardcore raider.

What I see, is that the devs decide what to do with job designs, and they obviously don't do it in a vacuum, they have metrics for that sort of stuff.

Ultimately your opinion on what job feels complete or not is moot, as is mine. Ultimately, the devs will do what the devs will do. I don't think it needs to be proven that they listen to this forum feedback, or we'd be playing a vastly different game.

No amount of thrashing around going in every thread with "I don't like this waaah" will ever change that. It is just petulant.

You realise your stance is that they shouldn't voice their complaints because the Devs have altered the job based on fan complaints, yes?

[Nyarlha]

You realise your stance is that they shouldn't voice their complaints because the Devs have altered the job based on fan complaints, yes?

Except the devs don't alter jobs specifically based on fan complaints. The play metrics they have access too have far more impact on their decisions. I mean, current DRK is a good example of that : the "feedback" here overwhelmingly wants to change it, but they didn't, they just kept it as is from 5.x because the job is still incredibly popular in game and saw level of play never seen in previous expansions. Same for MCH, the job is more popular than ever since the last revamp, like it or not.

[ChazNatlo]

Except the devs don't alter jobs specifically based on fan complaints. The play metrics they have access too have far more impact on their decisions. I mean, current DRK is a good example of that : the "feedback" here overwhelmingly wants to change it, but they didn't, they just kept it as is from 5.x because the job is still incredibly popular in game and saw level of play never seen in previous expansions. Same for MCH, the job is more popular than ever since the last revamp, like it or not.

Yes. Except that when talking about the Summoner Changes specifically, they were specifically spurred on by fan demand, not metrics. They didn't get some metric saying that people wanted flashier summons like the early entries to the series. They had people making posts and threads asking for that. And I doubt their metrics said people weren't playing Summoner, I hear it was quite popular (Largely due to the fact that it is one of the most iconic non basic classes in the series I'd wager, next to Dragoon. Basic being the ones typically unlocked first)

[Nyarlha]

Yes. Except that when talking about the Summoner Changes specifically, they were specifically spurred on by fan demand, not metrics. They didn't get some metric saying that people wanted flashier summons like the early entries to the series. They had people making posts and threads asking for that. And I doubt their metrics said people weren't playing Summoner, I hear it was quite popular (Largely due to the fact that it is one of the most iconic non basic classes in the series I'd wager, next to Dragoon. Basic being the ones typically unlocked first)

The SMN rework is, by their own admission, because they felt they were at a dead end with the job due to how egis worked. People have been claiming for the job to be more focused on Summons since the HW DoT mage iteration. If they were truly making changes based on people "wanting flashier Summons" they would have done it way earlier. To them, this rework was necessary either way, complaints or not.

[ChazNatlo]

The SMN rework is, by their own admission, because they felt they were at a dead end with the job due to how egis worked. People have been claiming for the job to be more focused on Summons since the HW DoT mage iteration. If they were truly making changes based on people "wanting flashier Summons" they would have done it way earlier. To them, this rework was necessary either way, complaints or not.

Whether it was necessary or not, the direction they chose to go in was influenced by fan request. "Since a realm reborn, a lot of people were saying 'this is not a Summoner, this is just a DoT placer.' So we removed it."

Here's the thing. Your argument that there is no point in people expressing their frustrations because devs gonna do what devs gonna do hinges on the logic that the devs don't listen. It doesn't matter if my line about flashier summons is in error or not, whether they needed to change the class or not, whether they are using metrics or not. If the Devs can be proven to listen to the fans giving their opinions, then there is merit in giving those opinions, whether you like them or not.

[Nyarlha]

Whether it was necessary or not, the direction they chose to go in was influenced by fan request. "Since a realm reborn, a lot of people were saying 'this is not a Summoner, this is just a DoT placer.' So we removed it."

Here's the thing. Your argument that there is no point in people expressing their frustrations because devs gonna do what devs gonna do hinges on the logic that the devs don't listen. It doesn't matter if my line about flashier summons is in error or not, whether they needed to change the class or not, whether they are using metrics or not. If the Devs can be proven to listen to the fans giving their opinions, then there is merit in giving those opinions, whether you like them or not.

If you think someone coming to complain about their main job in half a dozen of threads (even unrelated ones) as a knee jerk reaction to said job not changing "for the better" in their mind in EW will have any effect on job design, I have a bridge to sell you. Because that's exactly what some people are doing right now.

[ChazNatlo]

If you think someone coming to complain about their main job in half a dozen of threads (even unrelated ones) as a knee jerk reaction to said job not changing "for the better" in their mind in EW will have any effect on job design, I have a bridge to sell you. Because that's exactly what some people are doing right now.

This isn't some random disconnected thread. This is the primary general discussion (yes, DPS forum would be better, general is fine.) And the best way not to have your opinion heard is to keep it to yourself.

[Claviusnex]

The SMN rework is, by their own admission, because they felt they were at a dead end with the job due to how egis worked. People have been claiming for the job to be more focused on Summons since the HW DoT mage iteration. If they were truly making changes based on people "wanting flashier Summons" they would have done it way earlier. To them, this rework was necessary either way, complaints or not.

You don't think YoshiP's often said statement that he doesn't like pet classes has anything to do with the change? I believe that has more to do with the rework than the inability to take the Summoner job forward.