Stop the WoWificaton (ui mods)

[Menriq]

Calling out someone for not doing enough damage is using ACT to harrass and can get you banned. How do you know a certain person is not doing enough damage? Use those addons and UIs as much as you want. Yoshi-P doesn't care if you use an addon unless you start using it to be a bully. Also, don't try to tell someone how to improve unless they ask for it or you ask them first. I am not against help people improve, but I am not about to get banned for doing it.

You don't need ACT to know if someone (or the group) isn't doing enough damage. If I can get through my whole rotation five times on a fight, chances are good the damage as a whole is low. As far telling someone how to improve? No, I generally don't say a thing. But I do find it interesting in so many of these threads and threads about them "dumbing down" complex classes, the people complaining generally are no where near the top of the class in performance, and don't engage in the content where playing at a peak performance matters.

[aveyond-dreams]

It is quite easy to tell when something is going wrong without using ACT. All you need to do is look at the speed the enemy's health bar is going down or the timer for the instance on the side of the screen. If you play the game properly, you will do enough damage to get through content at a reasonable pace. However, a no dps healer or someone who doesn't understand their rotation will cause significant delays.

Not telling someone how they can improve their gameplay is to the detriment of all, really. There are still level 80 tanks in Heroes Gauntlet who single pull and freak out when they are told to go faster. If I notice something going wrong, I try to offer basic advice like "use holy please" or "its ok to w2w here." It's not that complex and will do wonders to improve not just my experience but theirs as well, since they'll run into less friction later on now that they have a better grasp of what they should be doing. That being said, if they throw a tantrum or react aggressively to such advice, I will not carry that person through content. I'd simply leave without a word, which is allowed due it falling under a difference of playstyle.

[MintnHoney]

Damage metres are effecting other players and the community . "why arent you doing enough damage?" Additionally its giving you advantages over others.

You wanna know how I know that you're not doing enough, even though I don't have parsers or particularly care whether or not you're doing enough?
Because you're last in the aggro order, that's how.

[Ashima]

You don't need ACT to know if someone (or the group) isn't doing enough damage. If I can get through my whole rotation five times on a fight, chances are good the damage as a whole is low. As far telling someone how to improve? No, I generally don't say a thing. But I do find it interesting in so many of these threads and threads about them "dumbing down" complex classes, the people complaining generally are no where near the top of the class in performance, and don't engage in the content where playing at a peak performance matters.

Right, if you can get through your rotation 5 times, then the group as a whole is not doing enough damage. I 100% agree. However, I have also seen other people single out a specific person for low damage. But here is the question, how do you find out if someone is doing low damage in a group without a damage meter? Besides watching a character standing still doing nothing? I would love to know for myself to improve. On that note of improvement, typically I love some more experience player of the class I play to give me pointers on how to improve. I learned for a experienced Paladin that arm's length is a "pseudo trash defensive". I use it as such as noticed how less the healer had to dote on me.

Edit: I am not against a damage meter, I am just against being a bully. There are ways to tell people that they are low on the damage meter without having to saying: Useless X KYS (other tank in my group was told that)

It is quite easy to tell when something is going wrong without using ACT. All you need to do is look at the speed the enemy's health bar is going down or the timer for the instance on the side of the screen. If you play the game properly, you will do enough damage to get through content at a reasonable pace. However, a no dps healer or someone who doesn't understand their rotation will cause significant delays.

Not telling someone how they can improve their gameplay is to the detriment of all, really. There are still level 80 tanks in Heroes Gauntlet who single pull and freak out when they are told to go faster. If I notice something going wrong, I try to offer basic advice like "use holy please" or "its ok to w2w here." It's not that complex and will do wonders to improve not just my experience but theirs as well, since they'll run into less friction later on now that they have a better grasp of what they should be doing. That being said, if they throw a tantrum or react aggressively to such advice, I will not carry that person through content. I'd simply leave without a word, which is allowed due it falling under a difference of playstyle.

I normally single pull cause I don't really know if the DPS can burn it down. If the DPS runs ahead of me and pulls it towards me, cowabunga it is. I also used to Tank in WoW, so I am no stranger to pain.mp4.

[LittleImp]

Because you arent supposed to look into the gaming code / damage numbers of others.

Actually, the game itself explicitly offers us this data in the combat tab.

And i dont even get why players need it. Are you guys so damn bad at the game that you need extra damage metres like that to display yourself if you are bad at your damn rotation and equipment?

The impact of certain niche optimizations can be hard to determine without access to data. The game actually provides the data itself; Parsing is simply a way of taking that already available data and formatting it in a more human-friendly way, hence YoshiP's various statements comparing parsing to using Excel.

Additionally, for newer players it can be difficult to get a clear gauge on exactly how well you are performing in comparison to more experienced players. Parsing can help you assess yourself, and focus on areas where your play can be improved. It's also a way for players to share fight-specific execution without having to record / upload every single pull; If you wanted to see how a high-end Black Mage optimizes around a certain movement heavy mechanic, you can simply review their log timeline and see exactly how they're playing.

Just play the damn game and not the gaming code and numbers. Enjoy it for what it is, and dont try to change it.
Sorry, but its pathetic. If you want to work with numbers all day long you guys can do my job, i am working with numbers and Excel sheets all day long..

I have zero doubt you are more toxic than most of the hypothetical people you are insulting in this post. Putting people down for putting effort into something they enjoy is really gross.

[Menriq]

Right, if you can get through your rotation 5 times, then the group as a whole is not doing enough damage. I 100% agree. However, I have also seen other people single out a specific person for low damage. But here is the question, how do you find out if someone is doing low damage in a group without a damage meter? Besides watching a character standing still doing nothing? I would love to know for myself to improve.

For one, i generally have an idea of the gear level based on health before the instance even starts (waiting for the walls to drop). I can then inspect them and get an idea if they look geared. I had a level 80 dungeon the other day in my mentor roulette, and they had several level 70 gear items on (and no, it wasn't TEA BiS gear either). Second, as someone who has all the battle classes to 80, I have a general idea of what rotations are and what the animations look like. I can't speak for others, but if you know what to look for, you can pretty quickly spot who is and isn't pulling their weight. HOWEVER, like I said, I generally don't say anything because I probably won't meet them again, and if someone really wants to learn, there are enough resources out there to help people improve without needing someone to tell them to "git gud".

[Ashima]

For one, i generally have an idea of the gear level based on health before the instance even starts (waiting for the walls to drop). I can then inspect them and get an idea if they look geared. I had a level 80 dungeon the other day in my mentor roulette, and they had several level 70 gear items on (and no, it wasn't TEA BiS gear either). Second, as someone who has all the battle classes to 80, I have a general idea of what rotations are and what the animations look like. I can't speak for others, but if you know what to look for, you can pretty quickly spot who is and isn't pulling their weight. HOWEVER, like I said, I generally don't say anything because I probably won't meet them again, and if someone really wants to learn, there are enough resources out there to help people improve without needing someone to tell them to "git gud".

Ok, cool. Thank you for the info. I will just need to play other classes to get an idea of rotations and damage.

[Rinhi]

You are pathetic for implying I busy myself with RMT. Reported for libel, which is illegal in Germany. Stop this shit.

report dn

oh heck, posts got deleted? pog

[Tonkra]

Actually, the game itself explicitly offers us this data in the combat tab.

It doesnt offer you the option to sum up all the damage of yourself or your party members..
to track like if you are controlling what your party members are doing is personally not a community friendly behaviour.

The impact of certain niche optimizations can be hard to determine without access to data.

"Without" data, you sound like me - in real life i am working as a performance marketing manager handling tons of data and numbers every day.

You sure you are playing the GAME or the numbers? Shouldnt people play to enjoy RP / the world / the experience / the battle instead of DATA.. that we shouldnt have access to? (in that form)
Just saying.

Additionally, for newer players it can be difficult to get a clear gauge on exactly how well you are performing in comparison to more experienced players.

I wonder how i ever could feel that i have to improve myself at certain points without a parsing tool...monitors controls what i and how well other players are "performing". so i dont actually know how that is "needed"... everyone feels if they perform poorly. There are tons of tutorials on youtube how to do your rotations, if you dont have a brain. But you dont need a dps metre for that and you dont have the right to give yourself that advantage over other players (read the EULA)

And yes, i am "aggressive" against this kind of behaving. Since its against the game rules which we complied with (the EULA is there for a reason)... and it gives you advantages over other players as well.
And i personally dont want the community which WoW has (due to things like these, that surely play a role in it)

If you cant accept how the game was designed or you can not accept the EULA quit the game, easy as that.

[Menriq]

It doesnt offer you the option to sum up all the damage of yourself or your party members..
to track like if you are controlling what your party members are doing is personally not a community friendly behaviour.

In the video, Yoshi-P actually gives an example of those who know how to do it could take the combat log, put it in Excel, and have macros parse out the data for you to do the exact same thing. So sure, you could do the exact same thing as ACT if you wanted to.

You sure you are playing the GAME or the numbers? Shouldnt people play to enjoy RP / the world / the experience instead of DATA.. that we shouldnt have access to? (in that form)
Just saying.

I keep score when I golf. Am I playing the game or the numbers when I am trying to improve on my own personal performance by improving my handicap? Taking that hobby into this one, perhaps I enjoy seeing the numbers and my personal performance improve.

I was once a new player myself, too. And i didnt need a "cheating" tool which controls what i and how well other players are "performing".
I wonder how i ever could feel that i have to improve myself at certain points without a parsing tool...

And yes, i am "aggressive" against this kind of behaving. Since its against the game rules which we complied with... and it gives you advantages over other players as well.
And i personally dont want the community which WoW has (due to things like these, that surely play a role in it)

Just to confirm. If I take my combat log, and do exactly as Yoshi-P in regards to Excel, you have no issues right? Because I am using the data the game provides in the combat log, and manually calculating everything. If you say no, then it's not ACT you are against and it's also not against the game rules.