Is anyone else concerned about 6.0 Summoner?

[Dyvid]

I'll just add my name to the list.

[Mindiori]

Whatever comes, people seem to be stuck in a sort of denial about complexity/simplification et al. The days where any job was 'fun' for those with a brain installed is long gone. Many a deflective argument was raised about 'instance difficulty being increased'. 'Less watching the hotbars and more active environmental demands'. And I could only laugh at the mental gymnastics involved. Not only does the engine, team and so on not have it in them for that style of design change - the masses are casual and complain even if jobs are mashing one button.

The future is here and it certainly isn't one of entertaining gameplay. Certainly, I expect those used to some sort of single rotation engagement in their gaming will disagree. Yet there is a divergence of opinion when placed with veterans vs that crowd. When you grow up with gameplay that has a certain player growth, depth and expectation - and see it watered down to babies first mmo; as was the case with wow; there is solid reasoning as to why some are annoyed.

Instead we have point the finger games. Hyperbole in numerous directions. If you think the current jobs are engaging then (personally) I think you're insane. They are flashy - but spamming a single DPS skill on a healer; when past MMO's had entire rotation bars worth, is nothing short of chuckle worthy. People are consistently intellectually dishonest. I assume to placate their lack of skill and enjoyment at brainless activities.

When a group of people start to tell you 'you've got one percent of content to enjoy if you want a challenge' - and then insert some 'elitist' insult; it basically becomes battle of the bigot. An utter waste of time for all. So there will be no compromise, because there can't be.

If pretty looking one button classes/jobs draws the money - that's all they care about. You are blowing nothing but smoke comparatively. Sad but I struggle to stay mentally engaged with most of the jobs. I hope that the rest of you don't find yourself in that position in time. Genuinely so. As it isn't 'fun'. At least not for me. Fortunately other aspects of the game can tide me over till something else draws me away.

[Jirah]

Whatever comes, people seem to be stuck in a sort of denial about complexity/simplification et al. The days where any job was 'fun' for those with a brain installed is long gone. Many a deflective argument was raised about 'instance difficulty being increased'. 'Less watching the hotbars and more active environmental demands'. And I could only laugh at the mental gymnastics involved. Not only does the engine, team and so on not have it in them for that style of design change - the masses are casual and complain even if jobs are mashing one button.

The future is here and it certainly isn't one of entertaining gameplay. Certainly, I expect those used to some sort of single rotation engagement in their gaming will disagree. Yet there is a divergence of opinion when placed with veterans vs that crowd. When you grow up with gameplay that has a certain player growth, depth and expectation - and see it watered down to babies first mmo; as was the case with wow; there is solid reasoning as to why some are annoyed.

Instead we have point the finger games. Hyperbole in numerous directions. If you think the current jobs are engaging then (personally) I think you're insane. They are flashy - but spamming a single DPS skill on a healer; when past MMO's had entire rotation bars worth, is nothing short of chuckle worthy. People are consistently intellectually dishonest. I assume to placate their lack of skill and enjoyment at brainless activities.

When a group of people start to tell you 'you've got one percent of content to enjoy if you want a challenge' - and then insert some 'elitist' insult; it basically becomes battle of the bigot. An utter waste of time for all. So there will be no compromise, because there can't be.

If pretty looking one button classes/jobs draws the money - that's all they care about. You are blowing nothing but smoke comparatively. Sad but I struggle to stay mentally engaged with most of the jobs. I hope that the rest of you don't find yourself in that position in time. Genuinely so. As it isn't 'fun'. At least not for me. Fortunately other aspects of the game can tide me over till something else draws me away.

This
I hear far too many “remove this for my enjoyment” and “glad jobs don’t change because I don’t wanna learn new things” every job has been changed to cater to these people alone and it’s really showing in 5.0/6.0

[RdehlikaJenma]

Egis don't do anything but stand there. You still summon the dragon and phoenix. You charge gems. You're a gem charger now. One of your important spells you have to cast has a long cast timer and you can't move while casting. But if you don't use it, your dps will be in the gutter. They specifically said you can't just pick your favorite gem and use it. You have to use all 3.

I don't see this as an improvement.

Egi's didn't do anything throughout ShB. they were basically just passive damage, even worse there was a right and wrong version of "useless pixels that adds passive damage"

6.0 SMN seems to be a "All of the DPS is focused on the Summoner abilities, and the act of summoning, rather than having a passive damage machine out which happens to interact with abilities of the Summoner.
Also, how exactly is having to use all three summons a bad thing? Each one seems to grant a different style of attack during that particular phase/trance, and you can glamour your Carbuncle, so if you must have scuffed primals out and about, you can

[Vrankyl]

I am honestly having trouble understanding some of the thought processes here. Which isn't a bad thing, I just am not sure if people even realize what they want. SE's stance is obvious. They want to ensure that each job can be played by the average player without too much of a learning curve. Sure that may turn off some of the people who prefer this complex rotation, but let's be honest most MMOs don't have that anymore. If anything, even as it is FF14 classes have the most involved button filled rotations.

Take MCH. I can understand the thoughts on that. It has too few buttons compared to other DPS classes. Now that is likely to change with Endwalkers as they start adding in more. That said not a single person can deny that MCH is in the best place it has ever been in. Gun mage was annoying and pitiful, Stormblood MCH was.... gross, but ShB MCH is functionable, and while it may not be as involved it packs a nice punch. Now looking at SMN... honestly I think it has desperately needed the same treatment. Ever since Stormblood the Summoner rotation has been far too involved and required far too much build up to get to its burst window which made it far too easy to mess the whole thing up and throw your entire dps into the garbage just by mistiming a single ability. Sure I guess some people can find that fun, but overall it wasn't really feasible. Not to mention when compared to BLM or RDM it is far easier to meet DPS requirements on them with far less effort. So what is the point of the complexity if it doesn't provide any bonus? In which case, I say good riddance to the overtly complex state SMN has ended up in and I hope that the new SMN is more involved than current MCH but a bit more forgiving than it is now.

[Jandor]

New Summoner looks cool. I'm not too worried about how it will play, it looks like it's almost a new job and the new jobs tend to be well designed. SAM, RDM, GNB and DNC were all pretty solid in my opinion, only needed a few minor tweaks here and there to get them up and running properly.

[Dyvid]

I am honestly having trouble understanding some of the thought processes here. Which isn't a bad thing, I just am not sure if people even realize what they want. SE's stance is obvious. They want to ensure that each job can be played by the average player without too much of a learning curve. Sure that may turn off some of the people who prefer this complex rotation, but let's be honest most MMOs don't have that anymore. If anything, even as it is FF14 classes have the most involved button filled rotations.

But is this a good thing though? Back in 2.0 you had jobs that worked for all group, from easy and straight forward to complex and difficult. The problems happen when people say "I want to play XYZ job but don't like the design. SE need to change it so it caters to me." Rather than playing the jobs they like, the want to change the jobs they desire.

In FFXI I wanted to play SMN so badly but when I finally unlocked it... I was completely disappointed in it's design. I tossed my two cents in on the forums; started play BLM then COR instead and was happier for it.
In FFXIV I picked up SMN in beta in feel in love with it playstyle. I played it for 8 years straight and now I'm SoL, go find a new job.

[Ultaniku]

I’m not necessarily concerned, but I’m trying to be optimistically hopeful that it isn’t going to be just another straightforward nuke them caster. I hope there is some complexity.

[aveyond-dreams]

I for one am overjoyed that summoner is finally becoming a summoner. I am very grateful that they are purging all of the unnecessary poison mage abilities and giving us a job that actually feels good to play. As someone who has played on/off since the start of ARR and whose played nearly every FF game, I have always wanted summoner to have actual summons like Ifrit/Bahamut/etc. For the past 8 years I’ve had numerous experiences of being belittled by “affliction warlocks” who wanted to push summoner in a direction it was never meant to go in.

“If you want full summons go play another FF game! It goes against the lore! Go play another class! This summoner is *unique* and it’s supposed to be a challenge!!!”
Sorry, but no. Dots, poisons, and anything of the sort should stay gone. Period. The button bloat can also stay gone. I’ve even seen some people lament that it might be easier than dancer. Gee, I wonder what class is more popular and fun to play. And its not the one running around with a flying chicken nugget.

The gameplay we saw in the trailer and live letter reminds me of FFIX – whose summons are linked to jewels such as topazes, emeralds, and rubies – and with a bit of Dissidia Yuna mixed in. In Dissidia 012 and as is the case for most FF games, she summons the aeon, it does an attack, and leaves. Dissidia NT took her gameplay in a new direction by giving her the abilities of her summons like Heavenly Strike, etc while the pet wasn’t out. Doubtless in the future more pets will be added in the form of demis or trances if they keep building upon the new foundation they’ve laid. I will not sacrifice a single one of those new pets or abilities to something as meaningless as another dot spell on summoner.

Endwalker is the expansion where they proved they are really listening and if people are even remotely suggesting that summoner should go back to being the overly complicated mess that it was, I feel compelled to speak out against them. Me and many others will enjoy this new true summoner job, especially newer players who will vastly outnumber the affliction warlocks who are leaving.

Lastly, thank you Yoship for making what I thought was impossible possible this expansion. Thank you for giving us a real summoner, a real bard, and even male bunnies. For so long we were told things like these would never happen, and I’m so glad those naysayers have been proven wrong. Thank you for listening and being beholden to us, and I am excited to see what is in store for the future.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Ill be worried AFTER I play it and find it to not be fun.
This applies to every Job.

Reading the changes, hearing the changes, seeing a pretty trailer that shows only a handful of abilities focusing on showcasing whats new (Ive noticed some abilities were missing, and they weren't said to be removed besides a couple....like Fluid Aura) and seeing other reactions to it mean nothing to me...talk is cheap. Especially when we dont know EVERYTHING; such as potency changes, and we haven't even played it to see how it translates live in action.
Once we actually get our hands on the job and actually play it in its entirety with the new content, can we actually say if the changes are good or Bad.