Thread: Is anyone else concerned about 6.0 Summoner?

Originally Posted by Ryaz

I hear people say MCH is far from perfect, but what exactly would a perfectly designed MCH actually be? Different people enjoy different ways to play and I'm sure perfect varies from person to person. I quite enjoy the new MCH. Far more than the old one.

A-HEM
I will not go into details but current MCH is a deep as a puddle.

-Heatblast spam is tiring when repeated, especially when raiding savage/ultimate.
-Heatloop doesn't work, if you perform your rotation correctly you will end in a deadend, forcing you to choose between losing Drill/Air Anchor cast, overcap heat or delay Barrel Stabilizer in order to use Wildfire on cooldown. Best choice is to delay BS, which desynch the two cooldowns when they are clearly designed to go together.
-The Queen AI is wonky, its target is sometimes random and it's nothing more than a glorified dot.
-Some cooldown are way too "automatic", you can try yourself, what's the difference between a regular Hypercharge and a Wildfire + Hypercharge? One button.
-Flamethrower is a boring tool that also brings tick fishing, something so annoying for just 100 potency most MCH ignores.

I've seen people saying "I like Flamethrower because I'm allowed to do nothing".
Meanwhile on any other job they can take a break as well and it's not different from spamming Spreadshot either.

MCH rework is welcome and was needed. The only thing is that the rework feels incomplete, making it a snoozejob when raiding.
It's my absolute favorite, but I can't suffer the same boring rotation for another 2 years.

Originally Posted by Ryaz

I hear people say MCH is far from perfect, but what exactly would a perfectly designed MCH actually be? Different people enjoy different ways to play and I'm sure perfect varies from person to person. I quite enjoy the new MCH. Far more than the old one.

But do you enjoy it enough? Is it your main? Your go to for Raids and Trails? Sometimes being fun to play on occasion isn't enough. When you completely change how a job plays, you risk alienating the core group that plays it.

Originally Posted by Eloah

Okay, so during the job showcase, Summoner got a lot of hype, unlike Scholar, (I still cry at night, lol). And this hype was rightfully deserved as it was new and flashy and looked amazing. But whatever side of the coin you're on for any iteration, I'm curious if this rework was the right choice.

SMN was in the process of getting a rework, and moving away from how it functioned in XI. However, it seems like they aren't addressing certain aspects, and might be writing themselves into a new corner. With this rework, why weren't we able to acquire additional Primals/Egis? That is a key feature that many players have wanted since 2.0. With this rework, it would of been the perfect opportunity to add in at least Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva.

Much remains to be seen, and I am a bit excited to see how SMN will play, but I wonder if this rework is something to be hyped over, or if it's more like catering. Anyone else feel this way? I mean with this rework why not add in the other primals?

Personally I'm really looking forward to it, It's been a long time since I enjoyed SMN and these changes look good to me, we will have to wait and see though I guess.

I don't really understand your comparison with FFXI though, SMN in FFXIV was never anything like the job in FFXI so I don't understand your point about it "moving away" from the FFXI version, it was never anything like it. Sure there are a few surface level similarities (it uses primals as pets) but on a mechanical level they were always poles apart. I don't think SMN will ever get 3 more primals, the game play loop in FFXIV just wouldn't suit having nearly a dozen different pets so just like how BLM is stripped very bare compared to FFXI SMN is the same. This game achieves challenging and engaging content in a completely different way to FFXI.

Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Reworks don't have a good history.

pretty subjective tbh

Am I concerned about Summoner in 6.0? Yeah definitely but also a bit hopeful. I really hated the changes to Summoner in 5.0 to the point I swapped to BLM and never touched summoner again. So the idea of more changes fills me with a certain dread. On the other hand it might be that I will like the new system.

I am willing to give it a try when 6.0 hits and see how it goes.

From a story perspective, the first Heavensward SMN quest establishes that we can't summon Ramuh-egi to begin with, but I can't remember the details of why. From a gameplay perspective, the game works around having specific rotations and I feel like having 9 different summons/stances including trance, demi-bahamut, and demi-grandpa would be a bit too much for the devs to balance and for the players to handle.

To me, the SMN rework is a long time coming. Yoshi-P has already stated his distaste for pet classes and we've seen them dialed back every expansion. On top of that, the class has been an awkward combination of a DoT mage and a weaker version of summoner when compared to summoners of past FF games. I'm not sure what exactly I was expecting ahead of the video, but I'm happy to see big summons with a big attack upon summon make an appearance and I'm interested to see how the new stances work.

As a smn main since ARR, I'm not, and I won't let it bother me until 6.0 lands and we get our hands on it and see how it actually plays. Fretting and fussing right now, when we only saw a 30 second clip and had a few minutes of discussion from it by Yoshida, is pointless since we really don't know much of anything.

Smn is not and never really has been a super difficult job and I would much rather have a more traditional summoner than a dot mage. And say what you will, but this is a more traditional summoner. In many ff games, the summons only appear momentarily and the rest is just the smn themselves dpsing like a blm or healing like a whm. Would persistent pets be nice? Yes! FFXI, as example, had a lot of smn fun with persistent pets, but to be fair, all you really did was swap your own attack button for one that commands your pet so it was, at its core, just a bit more flashier than normal attack. Just like it was in any ff game with persistent summons. Or just like it will be with the rework.

So am I worried? Again, nope. None of the jobs are complicated and those few that still do have anything that could be remotely seen as complicated will be streamlined eventually. That is just how ffxiv works. If ppl want more complexity, they need to think about that when they are complaining that everything is too hard or too complicated. Cause that is precisely why we have mmos like we do today, instead of mmos like we had back in 2005.