Samurai needs damage buffs

[Garnix]

You don't need to be anywhere close to optimal to kill either extremes or post week 1 savages.

That's exactly what I meant when I said it doesn't really matter.

[Kolsykol]

That's exactly what I meant when I said it doesn't really matter.

Just because you can clear the content doesn't mean that it doesn't matter, and I don't agree either that '' optimal gameplay '' is absolutely necessary to clear but that's shifting the conversation.
And the difference in dps can absolutely be the difference between a kill and a wipe *especially* if no one in the group is bothering because they've been told that it '' doesn't really matter anyway ''.
Suddenly it does matter a whole lot.

But just like in the other thread this has just become people making excuses to play improperly and not even make an effort to even learn their rotations or hit positionals etc.
Then the same people hop unto the forums to complain about damage being low and ask for buffs...

People read this and they believe it and learn bad habits and end up being worse players.
It doesn't matter if you only miss a positional every now and again or if you drift by mistake on SAM, but it does matter when you consistently go in with that attitude and mentality that it doesn't matter because it's no longer going to be one or two mistakes anymore.
And chances are also very high that this extends to other things too like no food buffs, pots and ignoring mechanics, not melding etc.
Suddenly these things that people say '' don't matter '' pile on top of each other.

You don't need to be anywhere close to optimal to kill either extremes or post week 1 savages.

True but we're talking about people here who cba to learn and perform their proper rotations and/ or positionals.
And then you add on top of that too people refusing to meld and use food buffs because it '' doesn't matter, only smol percent ''.
It's about people not even making an actual effort.

[Garnix]

True but we're talking about people here who cba to learn and perform their proper rotations and/ or positionals.
And then you add on top of that too people refusing to meld and use food buffs because it '' doesn't matter, only smol percent ''.
It's about people not even making an actual effort.

I mean....there is a difference between being an average/mediocre player, and being a stupid asshole player.
I think that the recent video from Zepla is on point regarding this topic. (Video title : What Makes a "Bad Player" in FFXIV?)

[FlareVyzar]

Samurai is on a 60s cycle if played correctly and depending on the GCD after buffs, you have a 2-4 GCD filler phase and if any form of downtime occurs, be it from intermissions or uptime loss, you need to adjust your loop accordingly so you don't misalign your cooldowns or they will lose value. So if you lost a GCD and are on a 2 filler, you need to go for a 1 GCD filler and so on.
Meikyo is on a 55s cooldown, double Midare on a 60s cooldown, Ikishoten on 60s aswell but a freestyle Samurai will misalign their cooldowns, using Meikyo too soon or too late, resulting in not getting used for the strong combo finishers to collect stickers, missing stickers for hitting double Midare on time and lacking stickers for regular dot refresh. Instead of playing a clean loop with good dot uptime and selfish burst aligned with raid buffs, they'll constantly have their double Midare at odd times, missing a lot of dot uptime, overcapping Kenki or letting Ikishoten drift and even drop their buffs.
Freestyle Samurai is both a hefty rDPS and aDPS loss but only very few bother with learning the correct loop, let alone constantly adjusting it in a fight with downtime.
Many just play it for Midare goes BRRRRR and the wonder why they get out-dpsed by classes with weaker pDPS.

There are two kinds of Freestyle Samurai. One that plays like an anime guy, pressing random buttons. Does not know anything. And there is the "proper freestyle" Samurai, also known as Adhoc Rotation.

The loop itself, is not the the best way to play Samurai. It actually is the Standard High end. Because this is what is suggested to new players when they approach to learning Samurai. But looping will only get you up to a certain extent. What will you do when you do a fight like E8s? E12s? E11s? TEA ? Or something like Diamond Weapon even? Looping just will not work for you there.

The top Samurai players are actually "freestyle" Samurais who mapped their rotation on a spreadsheet and proceed according to fight.

What gets freestyle Samurai a bad name is basically those players who spam Hakaze x10000.

Anyone who plays Samurai at high level knows that very well, that is what makes Samurai the hardest class to optimize currently.
Not saying Loop rotation is bad, it is the standard high damage, but if you only know that, you will never to the top level.
Obviously some fights Looping is optimal e.g E9s, but E9s is a full uptime fight. You don't learn much further past it.

Anyone who thinks Freestyle/Adhoc Rotation is bad, should go check Libitum Allegreto's logs or any top Samurai from E5s and up. Good luck getting on that level of Samurai performance while only knowing loop.
Heck if you don't want to perform on his level. You can even check mine. I play and self-optimize as Adhoc, but don't bother optimize and grind further after the first 2 month of raid tier. I could name further Samurais who kept on grinding for Speeds/Optimization, but you are free to go check that on FFLOGs.

[ssunny2008]

Anyone who plays Samurai at high level knows that very well, that is what makes Samurai the hardest class to optimize currently.

SAM is definately not the hardest class to optimize. You can adapt pretty easy to given circumstances thx to the 3 core combos "from the side, from behind, 2 buttons" most of the times even without true north. Playing uptime with a timed gaplcoser combo or using Meikyo in smart way will increase your damage too.
The most classes are way harder to optimize, because you don´t have the possibilities to adapt with your rotation, you need a bunch of proccs or have to care about short buffs / DoT´s. A lot of ppl just don´t think a step further and play 123, 145, 16, Midare permanently down while not using third eye.
SAM is easy mode in the endgame and even unoptimized, you´re able perform the same damage as other well optimized classes.

[FlareVyzar]

SAM is definately not the hardest class to optimize. You can adapt pretty easy to given circumstances thx to the 3 core combos "from the side, from behind, 2 buttons" most of the times even without true north. Playing uptime with a timed gaplcoser combo or using Meikyo in smart way will increase your damage too.
The most classes are way harder to optimize, because you don´t have the possibilities to adapt with your rotation, you need a bunch of proccs or have to care about short buffs / DoT´s. A lot of ppl just don´t think a step further and play 123, 145, 16, Midare permanently down while not using third eye.
SAM is easy mode in the endgame and even unoptimized, you´re able perform the same damage as other well optimized classes.

I mean i am not going to argue for further details into that statement. Most Casual players, who don't even bother to aim to the highest end just know it like that, without any credibility of performing on high level at all.

My statement about it being the hardest class to optimize comes from top DPS players who are SMN/BLM mains switched (which are the two overestimated difficulty classes btw and in reality at high end are clearly not) (not going to mention names, you are free to personally go ask anyone in the balance who did that. If you really think it is all 123 145 16. You clearly don't have an idea on how highest end speeds or optimization is.
Samurai is the easiest class to get into that i can agree, but optimize?

In melees? I got a 99 on MNK on my 2nd try of never playing before, just learned the opener that is all. A 99 on NIN on my 4th try on playing it from scratch. But SAM? Its my main and i still struggle to get things as easily as other classes. I don't even optimize MNK/NIN and its this easy to just perform at 90 +, yet for Samurai, i mess up even once and my damage fluctuates greatly. Ranging from 2500 potency to 20k Potency on a simple fight like E11s.

(Before, someone pulls a comment that i should BiS all classes just to prove them a point. No i am not going to waste my time to do that. You are free to ask players who did it, as i stated above. Some 5.4 Players are still grinding their stuff on all classes right now)
I am not going to continue bother writing on forums replying all the time. Just happened to be checking stuff up.

But if you want information, feel free to ask any of the Balance players who are still optimizing or have optimized for a long time. The logs are there. The resources are there. There are videos on YT out there. XivAnalysis is there. You are free to check, and come with a valid statement when you are able to perform on an high end optimized environment. Most players commenting on this thread haven't even stepped to the level , they seem to comment on.

[ssunny2008]

snip

Well i´ve actually claimed that the most just play 123 in a strict rotation, not me. I know how to play SAM and how to adapt to certain mechanics, because SAM has the possibilities to do that without combo breaks, burst window delays or whatever in the most cases.

Since you seem to care a lot about ff.logs, it doesn´t says all about optimization. First of all ff.logs takes parses from over 2 weeks and not of all time. Which means you can have a 99 because only "bad players" logged within the same time-window but your number decreases withing the following days. Just click on your own logs and you´ll see, that your 98 / 99 are gone. It´s only the momentum.

And if we talk about gameplay optimization, even someone with a 80% parse or maybe even 60% might play perfect. Maybe it just lacks of gear, bufffood or a good group? Lined up buffs do a lot as much as special party compositions. MNK´s Brotherhood is amazing with fast classes, MCH ftw! But with 2,5s SMN´s? Astro might be unlucky with cards? Or what´s with E11s Blue uptime or not? Not everyone is running for logs anyway.
A part of optimization is even to react to given circumstances and not like "Hüüüüh someone died, let´s go wipe, my RDPS!" or whatever.
It could even be a thing, that one SAM has a 95 log because the crit on Midare was not with him meanwhile the other has a critical-direct hit on it every time and the boss dies in a burst window.

Parses are not everything. Lately i had a 94 in levi unreal with my GNB. It´s not even my MT or well equipped. Imagine i would´ve used bufffood and potions, BIS gear, maybe... but who cares? My better half had a 98 in E12s, but had to use LB3. Imagine it´s her first MMORPG, she started with SHB as full-noob, raided the first time E5-8s, has major issues to remember mechanics and runs here and there from the platform. But hey, she learns and adapt.
Just because ppl don´t farm logs and don´t even do fights 100 times to optimize them perfectly, don´t mean that they´ve no clue or are bad players. May the E-Pen be with you.

[FlareVyzar]

Abt this

I do not really want to keep arguing in this thread but i feel like, with the influx of new players. Looking around ffxiv forums and seeing things like that is what will make them mis-informed and then perform bad on raids.

Fflogs what shows on your best hist. Is compared to all time during that patch cycle. Not the parses only page. The only two weeks part is only shown in the uploaded log on the "Damage Done" page. We NEVER look at those.

We never look at parses when someone is not BiS. No one will care about it if you are not BiS yet. Just because someone got a 99 does NOT mean we got it while bad players uploaded logs only, because it is compared to all time and it changes every day at 00:00 UTC. That is called historical. If someone has a 99, regardless if someone continues to optimize and gets a better parse. The person still performed well. Because if it is an early 99, it means they cleared early, which has a lot more value than those grinding for 99 for months. Sfia is a world prog player, his 99 is an 81 by today's measure. Does that mean that Sfia is bad? NO it does not.

About fast GCD slow GCD? What the f is that logic even? That is like saying, everyone should build more speed to get more damage under raid buffs?????? Every single person out there would build speed if that was the case.

We fit our hardest hitting skills under raid buffs. Not as many as possible. To boost the raid damage.

You are speaking about not farming logs but you are talking about optimization??? Optimization is done through farming multiple logs and looking at what works best around the team. e.g Ninja delays Trick attack to catch raid buffs after DD on E12s

About crit RNG. Samurai is notorious for having to rely on Crit Rng to get the highest possible log. This is true up to a certain extent. But crit rng mostly varies on a +10 scale. At worst you could have a 99 log become a 90 at a non existent crit to a high end crit. At average you will be getting high logs regardless of crit rng because that is how statistics work. You don't jump from grey to 99 with crit rng.

Parses do not matter as much yes. But when we are talking optimization. We are talking improvement. And this is what FFlogs is used for. And that is the principal reason why i stop parsing after the first two month of a raid tier since i clear week 1 / 2 of the raid tier coming out. I dont grind 400 + kills like those who are still doing.
But like, how are you ever going to improve in the game without parsing or someone parse a run for you?

If someone wants to attempt week 1 prog. They need to have high consistency on both mechs and damage. Because week 1 clear is the hardest dps check in this game. It is a process of improvement. I did not jump to being a week 1/2 player. I was grey, i parsed to improve. Using the logic that parsing means nothing just leads to people never improving.
Competing on FFlogs for personal ranking is what is unecessary.

I don't actively parse anymore, i help players clear everyday since i came back 2 weeks ago. I am getting 98 on NIN and SAM on E12s while helping players clear?? So by your logic i should have been a mediocre player because i am not actually parsing? I don't think if this is the right place to even post my videos on it. It is on my YT, you can go check those out. Back up your words when you want to make a statement.

You said you had a 98 on E12s but had to LB? Well, LB does not break your parses from 98 to green. You would at most be a 95 instead. But yours shows a 28 ? and your gear is i530? I helped a group clear today itself and i had to LB3, my NIN is an 86 with LB + damage downs on e10s. By your logic i should have been green too ? or grey?
You also said you got 94 on Levi Unreal, but the logs are not even there??????

Telling things like SMN is bad for MNK because it has 2.5s gcd is just dumb because it is not the GCD speed that matters. It is the rotation that bursts every 90 seconds.

[ssunny2008]

snip

That you never look at the 2 week parses, doesn´t change the fact. I could even have a 100 because i´m the only one who cleared it day 1 so, but maybe i just got carried by 7 other players?! And that you never look at parses without BiS doesn´t change the fact, that someone might have optimized his gameplay with the given circumstances. Or do you´ve BiS week 1?

As next you don´t even read properly. My better half had a 98, it would´ve been 99 or 100 without heal LB for sure.

And brotherhood on MNK has a 20% chance to open a chakra whenever a weapon skill or cast is activated from you or group members with the effect. So ofc a MCH with heatblast and 1,5s cd is able to create more than a SMN with 2,5s GCD within 15s. In the best case it would be 4 more open chakras, which is like 272 potency.

I don´t even know why you always claim "i don´t want to argue". You don´t even really argue, you just claim elitist things and stuff like "check me out on ff.logs" or whatever. Yeah, DPS-meters are a good thing to improve, but in your words it´s more the good old e-cock comparison.


And sry, but this isn´t my main and i´m not j****** on some percentages on ff.logs. I play, improve, kill a boss until i got what i want and move on. There is no need to waste my time, just to kill a boss 1min faster, or to get 100 dps more out of my logs. And this depends on the whole group anyway.

[FlareVyzar]

9

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I don't want to be an elitist or anything. Just want people to stop spreading misinformation.

If you got a 100 on day 1. You still hold the value of that 100 because you cleared before everyone else. Regardless if someone gets a better one.

No you can't get carried on Day 1 by 7 people. Because your team does not even know the mechs. They makes the strat by themselves, for themselves, during their prog and clear. Week 1, there is no carry. No gear, no uptime strat. Nothing. You have to perform at high level while progging on non -universal strats (also known as self optimization). And if you never parsed before to get to that point. It is impossible to attempt Week 1.

Try clearing E12S at i510 or any previous 4th floor raid at min-ilevel with your team and you will understand what kind of performance you need to get the clear.

When we look at raid buffs in MNK's case, we don't fit in as many GCDs as a primary target to buff the party raid dps. We put as many hard hitting skills over the 5% damage buff increase. What you said about fitting fast GCDs is only affecting the MNK, and is way less raid damage when combined with everyone's party buff during brotherhood. You never do that for the sake of chakra only. Chakra procs are bonus. If you want more chakra procs at a better rate. You combine Monk with CRIT buffing classes because you are more guaranteed to get chakra procs with that than relying on the 20% rng of gcds.

You made a statement about you getting logs, so it is obvious to check on your logs and i don't see anything you stated anywhere on it.
If your better half got it. Then feel free to tell them to approach with it. As for not your main character. Well you are free to update your profile. Should you wish to show whatever you mentioned has credibility or does not. I will only check on per what you have stated as here on this thread.

Don't want to cause an upsetting environment here. But don't go spreading mis information to players because when they step on where they want to improve. That is where mis information makes things harder for them.

I approached your statement with proofs, you checking it out is on you. If you don't want to, then don't. But stop being hurt over when your information is not correct as a raider or to anyone who wants to approach and improve in raids.

As for your e-**** statement, i don't use fflogs to show off my parses. They are there as credibility for improvement and which i use for recruitment purposes most of the time. I don't grind parses for months as stated in my previous post. I'm an early week blind prog player. Should i have tried showing off here, i would have been still grinding for parses. I enjoy optimization up to certain extent and that is about it.

I don't want to hurt anyone here. But my words are blunt and straight to the point. If it upset you, then i appologize for that.