Healers Exist for DPS fun only?

[Lexis]

Nobody talks about feeling valued. Healers are by default the most valuable role in any MMORPG that has it, regardless of their actual gameplay.

Healers do need complex dps rotation to keep us entertained. Unless the content is hard, which in FFXIV it rarely is, saving the party from a wipe becomes meaningless. Figuring out what type of heal to use is learning the basics of healing. Once you've learned it, all you are left with is one nuke spell and dot.

A healer's job is primarily to heal and their toolkit is designed accordingly. A DPS' primary job is damage, hence why they get the complexe rotations and we get the vast healing repertoire with a few simple damage spell to weave in when the opprtunity presents itself. If you want complexe DPS rotation with the ability to heal and raise people on the side, try Red Mage, it's what drew me to the class initially and I loved it.

If healers get the DPS potential of ranged DPS, why would anyone play a ranged DPS ever again? They'd just be inferior to healers in every way. Healers should never get a complexe DPS rotation and I'll never understand why people want to gatekeep the healing role to the top percent of players.

If healers get this kind of potential, fights will be balanced around it and dps queue times will skyrocket because no one will want to/be able to keep up with the insane demands of the class.

If healing bores you, please just play a DPS.

[FoxCh40s]

The discussion is about GMs not paying enough attention to healers and tanks. The fact of the matter is, no matter how poor the gameplay is for those two roles, they are always going to be more valuable than a dps job in-game. The value comes from the role itself and its place in the game.

Healers in this game have been given the opportunity to correct stupid and blatant mistakes. It is more or less a consequence of a bad player base in general. In any case, I went through FFlogs to check historically how much dps were the healers doing. The top SCH was not out-dpsing the top bard even in Heavensward. They had like 5 different DoTs, healed almost nothing, and still couldn't deal more than a dps that's playing properly. Back then they didn't have rDPS so we can't really check the real raid-contributing dps of a player. As far as I know, bards have raid-wide buffs so the DPS value that is seen is not really the correct one.

Right now in terms of rDPS, healers can achieve around 60-70% of a dps' max rDPS output. For the Oracle of Darkness, the strongest healer (AST) has dealt 64% of the rDPS of the strongest DPS job (Black Mage) and 73% of the rDPS of the weakest DPS job (Machinist).

Healers' dps is not negligible at all. We are achieving that amount of DPS with a 2-button rotation. Obviously, we are a little bit more complex than that. And I think we should be even more complex and allowed to reach 100% of the rDPS of the strongest DPS when we play perfectly well which should be next to impossible but still possible. The skill ceiling needs to be raised.

Why is this always the counter arguement? It's not about numbers for dps skills, it's about COMPLEXITY. We have 1 button that we push in excess, how is this a difficult idea to process?

What if Monk was just Bootshine, Bootshine, Bootshine, Bootshine?

Of if all you did was Full Thrust on Dragoon?

Is that interesting? F**ck no? If the thought appeals to you, please leave the conversation, as you will never convince us otherwise.

[WaxSw]

A healer's job is primarily to heal and their toolkit is designed accordingly. A DPS' primary job is damage, hence why they get the complexe rotations and we get the vast healing repertoire with a few simple damage spell to weave in when the opprtunity presents itself. If you want complexe DPS rotation with the ability to heal and raise people on the side, try Red Mage, it's what drew me to the class initially and I loved it.

If healers get the DPS potential of ranged DPS, why would anyone play a ranged DPS ever again? They'd just be inferior to healers in every way. Healers should never get a complexe DPS rotation and I'll never understand why people want to gatekeep the healing role to the top percent of players.

If healers get this kind of potential, fights will be balanced around it and dps queue times will skyrocket because no one will want to/be able to keep up with the insane demands of the class.

If healing bores you, please just play a DPS.

This take is so bad I hope you're trolling

[QooEr]

A healer's job is primarily to heal and their toolkit is designed accordingly. A DPS' primary job is damage, hence why they get the complexe rotations and we get the vast healing repertoire with a few simple damage spell to weave in when the opprtunity presents itself. If you want complexe DPS rotation with the ability to heal and raise people on the side, try Red Mage, it's what drew me to the class initially and I loved it.

If healers get the DPS potential of ranged DPS, why would anyone play a ranged DPS ever again? They'd just be inferior to healers in every way. Healers should never get a complexe DPS rotation and I'll never understand why people want to gatekeep the healing role to the top percent of players.

If healers get this kind of potential, fights will be balanced around it and dps queue times will skyrocket because no one will want to/be able to keep up with the insane demands of the class.

If healing bores you, please just play a DPS.

nobody wants to "gatekeep" healing to the top percent of players. to even do that you would need story content to do ultimate levels of damage. People are asking for healers to have more damage options because there is simply nothing else to do in downtime than to spam a single spell.
You say we do damage "when the opportunity presents itself" but that opportunity is very often over 95% of any given encounter, even with party members making mistakes.

i personally dont want to do more *damage numbers* as much as i want to have more *damage buttons*. Or anything to do while not healing. The reason i stuck with ast all expansion is because the cards fill that hole, but its ridiculously overtuned healing ogcds take away all the fun from healing itself.

if veta dont like healing, its because they ruined how the role plays, not because they want to play dps

[Rilifane]

A healer's job is primarily to heal and their toolkit is designed accordingly.

Sylphie, is that you?

A DPS' primary job is damage, hence why they get the complexe rotations and we get the vast healing repertoire with a few simple damage spell to weave in when the opprtunity presents itself.

This is FFXIV. Not a game where healing or tanking and mitgating is a full time job.
Everyone dpses for the vast majority of a fight, regardless of role. "When the opportunity presents itself" isn't something that happens occasionally during a fight, it's what you do the vast majority.

Healers should never get a complexe DPS rotation and I'll never understand why people want to gatekeep the healing role to the top percent of players.

Gatekeeping healing would mean making healing itself more complex. A complex dps rotation affects the skill ceiling, not the floor. And as such, it isn't gatekeeping. But the "b-b-but the new/ inexperienced players...!" is always used as an argument, even if it doesn't make sense.

If healing bores you, please just play a DPS.

Yes, definitely Sylphie.

[Truen]

Thoughts?

I'm starting to get the feeling, even going to tanks, that the other two roles besides DPS exist to solely and completely facilitate their fun.

Ours and tanks, starting in ShB, is second thought.

Yes. The sole root of my enjoyment while playing a healer involves juggling dps with healing responsibilities. The entire reason I HATE 5.0 healers is they ruined that balance and left me spamming 1 dot and a single dd...

[Liam_Harper]

Right now in terms of rDPS, healers can achieve around 60-70% of a dps' max rDPS output. For the Oracle of Darkness, the strongest healer (AST) has dealt 64% of the rDPS of the strongest DPS job (Black Mage) and 73% of the rDPS of the weakest DPS job (Machinist).

I stand corrected when I said it was 50%. Although that's a symptom of raid buffs and the Echo, as you can see by how WHM falls behind by at least 1500 rdps. I think 75% would be a good figure to settle at, but of course that should be with more engaging gameplay and a skilled player.

A healer's job is primarily to heal and their toolkit is designed accordingly. A DPS' primary job is damage, hence why they get the complexe rotations and we get the vast healing repertoire with a few simple damage spell to weave in when the opprtunity presents itself. If you want complexe DPS rotation with the ability to heal and raise people on the side, try Red Mage, it's what drew me to the class initially and I loved it

Says who? This misconception that healers should only heal, tanks should only take hits and dps should only do damage is invented by players. There is actually no rule that gameplay has to follow a strict, bland trinity and MMO's have been giving all 3 roles utility outside their role for years now. It makes roles more interesting, because once you've mastered the basics, like keeping your party alive or holding enmity, you can push even further and still become even more valuable to the team as you get better at your role.

If healers get the DPS potential of ranged DPS, why would anyone play a ranged DPS ever again? They'd just be inferior to healers in every way. Healers should never get a complexe DPS rotation and I'll never understand why people want to gatekeep the healing role to the top percent of players.

This is just pure exaggeration and nonsense to try and push your point. No one said healers should have equal dps to ranged dps. But there's no harm in it being closer. If that damages your ego because you're only playing dps at half the potential and really good healers are making you look bad, that's your problem and it's bad game design to punish the good players to cater to that ego.

No one is gatekeeping healing to the top percent of players either. In the majority of content, healers don't even need to do damage and no one cares if you are, even though it's basically pressing one button. If dps became more engaging, there's still no expectation to be doing high damage. It's just an option if you want to contribute more.

Players like yourself who say "just play dps" only hurt the game. The healer role is under-represented. Simplification isn't helping and has sent the quality of gameplay in Duty Finder down the drain. Why shouldn't the devs encourage more good healers to help the queue timers by making it a powerful, engaging and rewarding role?

[Lexis]

It's pretty clear people are taking whatever they want from my post to push their narrative further rather than engage in proper discourse so I'm not gonna bother anymore with this thread. From trolling accusations (forums usually have posting histories you can check to verify before making baseless accusations and if you had, you'd see I'm just your average user engaging in what I thought to be a conversation) to pretending I'm what I can only assume is a frequent poster that is disliked? (new here, wouldn't know. Again, you can probably verify this by checking my posting history).

I come from a game where they over-complicated healing for the sake of the elite crowd and it's not something I'd like to see repeated here as I've been thoroughly enjoying my healing experience here in FFXIV. Twist my words around however you please from here.

And for the record, someone literally was saying healers should have 100% of the ranged dps damage potential, hence my response to that statement. But I guess I'm the one trolling.

I know to stay away from the healer forums now, unfortunate :/

[RopeDrink]

It's pretty clear people are taking whatever they want from my post to push their narrative further rather than engage in proper discourse so I'm not gonna bother anymore with this thread.

I hope you see the irony - supposedly wanting better discourse while handing out defunct labels and telling people if they don't like it to just go play a different role, then leaving in a huff, after your own misinterpretation as to what Healers are actually asking for. I'll hazard a guess that absolutely nobody (with any real sense) is asking for Healers to be on par with actual damage dealers in terms of output. The main gripe is that the game (due to low healing requirements) provides so much downtime it's not even funny, and that downtime can only be spent doing three things: (a) absolutely nothing, (b) overhealing, or (c) mashing a single DPS button in between the occasional DoT (at least in terms of something like White Mage).

As someone who was watching Limit/Naguura progressing in min-itemlevel Eden last night, who are all serious WoW raiders giving FFXIV's raiding scene a serious min-il push, I wasn't in the least bit surprised when they admitted to being absolutely bored stiff spamming Glare for 90% of battles. Personally, I have no problem with that myself, but it doesn't take a genius to know that it could easily be made into something more than that -- be it increasing the healing requirement and/or adding more engaging HEALING systems, or giving the DPS side of it a shake-up, because all they've done for the past few years is dumb both down whilst the healing requirement barely moved.

[Roeshel]

Why is this always the counter arguement? It's not about numbers for dps skills, it's about COMPLEXITY. We have 1 button that we push in excess, how is this a difficult idea to process?

What if Monk was just Bootshine, Bootshine, Bootshine, Bootshine?

Of if all you did was Full Thrust on Dragoon?

Is that interesting? F**ck no? If the thought appeals to you, please leave the conversation, as you will never convince us otherwise.

I totally get your point. I agree that healers need complexity when it comes to dps. However, I do not need more complex rotation to deal the same amount of dps. I want more complex rotation because I want to deal more dps while healing.