Tanks Pulling Trains (Who's Wrong?)

[Deceptus]

Mechanics and bosses are not the issue. It's that mobs tend to hit quite hard in these dungeons at these levels so the real challenge lies in multiple packs at once.

This is made a bit worse with the DPS mindset of certain tanks. The last expansion I stacked Tenacity when I tanked in prep for the new one and Dungeons weren't much of an issue as my incoming damage was 10% lower just from Tenacity alone.

Plan on doing it again. Battledance 8 Materias are dirt cheap as is Tenacity Food.

[Claire_Pendragon]

This is mostly a WHM problem. Also your lowered iLv is a HUGE factor as well (as well as his gear and CDs) it makes a world of difference. Ive tested this with friends, and using gear from the prior dungeon, vs gear from ABOVE the dungeon, and its a night and day difference (ppl will argue otherwise). spamming cure2 is NOT enough to keep a tank alive with gear prior to the dungeons gear. you MUST weave oGCDs, and they MUST use CDs. (And WHM will run into problems eventually, too many unlucky crits, having to dodge or die, DPS take too long to kill, etc)
AST and SCH handle it much better being able to weave in more oGCDs. (testing the same tank, same gear, same CD usage from the tank, and comparing) but lilies do make it much easier, and WHMs oGCDs above 50 also really help a ton.
WHMs primary saving grace is its holy stun, but its FAR more reliant on the groups DPS, its easy for you to run out of oGCDs to weave, and the tank to run out of CDs if the enemy isnt dead in a reasonable amount of time. (Ive seen tanks full pull all mobs in aurum vale while im WHM, and im like, i have no oGCDs, i spam cure2, and my "run out of MP faster" oGCD. (PoM) half way into the fight, im always out of MP.)

But if you have the gear from the NEXT dungeon (higher iLv is better, the sync iLv is above the dungeons drop gear) you'll notice how much easier it is to keep a tank up with cure2 spam, and no oGCD weaved. (exception being 3+ packs, you still need to weave, but its far easier) Weapon of course making a pretty big difference, in comparison to the MND of armor/accessories.

[Roeshel]

Snip

Are we to assume that you know how to play WHM? You just said that you are using Presence in Mind to cast Cure II faster. How are people supposed to take your deduction seriously?

[Deceptus]

Are we to assume that you know how to play WHM? You just said that you are using Presence in Mind to cast Cure II faster. How are people supposed to take your deduction seriously?

If a tank isn't mitigating properly, and pulling bigger than their skill and HP can handle, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

There have been instances where I've had to POM Cure 2 spam. Rare, but it does happen.

[Liam_Harper]

WHM does go from being the worst dungeon healer to the best as it levels. WHM mana economy below 52 is terrible due to no Assize, Thin Air or 0 mp Lily heals, its GCD heals cost more than AST, it doesn't have an Embrace spamming fairy, it doesn't have Essential dignity or Lustrate on short cd. You don't even get Medica II until 50 or Tetra until 60. It's just Cure II's and Regen really. At 80 on the other hand it's a dungeon monster, massive burst aoe dps, stuns, plenty of healing.

[IceBlueNinja]

WHM does go from being the worst dungeon healer to the best as it levels. WHM mana economy below 52 is terrible due to no Assize, Thin Air or 0 mp Lily heals, its GCD heals cost more than AST, it doesn't have an Embrace spamming fairy, it doesn't have Essential dignity or Lustrate on short cd. You don't even get Medica II until 50 or Tetra until 60. It's just Cure II's and Regen really. At 80 on the other hand it's a dungeon monster, massive burst aoe dps, stuns, plenty of healing.

I look at this all time lol at that point a di ast is far better with sch running old ex mini ilvl gear no echo content for fun. both ast and sch got some mp manage there arr content wise. I wonder why they refuse to reduce medica 2 even alco got mp reduce from 1.3 to 1.1 then 1k flat.

[Aluja89]

Are we to assume that you know how to play WHM? You just said that you are using Presence in Mind to cast Cure II faster. How are people supposed to take your deduction seriously?

You don't know how to adapt and I'm supposed to take you seriously?

[Roeshel]

You don't know how to adapt and I'm supposed to take you seriously?

Adapt to what exactly? Obviously, everyone can spam heal and using PoM just gives you one extra cast in the span of 15sec that you are spamming. However, if you are continuously healing 700 cure potency on gcd in The Aurum Vale without overhealing then there is something very wrong with your tank. Instead of adapting to bad play, you might just tell them to start playing properly. I'd rather spam heal a dps or myself after the tank is dead if I have to spam heal. Their job is to mitigate the damage, mine is not to heal their mistakes even though it is possible.

[Gabadabs]

Adapt to what exactly? Obviously, everyone can spam heal and using PoM just gives you one extra cast in the span of 15sec that you are spamming. However, if you are continuously healing 700 cure potency on gcd in The Aurum Vale without overhealing then there is something very wrong with your tank. Instead of adapting to bad play, you might just tell them to start playing properly. I'd rather spam heal a dps or myself after the tank is dead if I have to spam heal. Their job is to mitigate the damage, mine is not to heal their mistakes even though it is possible.

If you think most tanks will listen if you tell them they are playing incorrectly, clearly you don't play many dungeons using Duty FInder.

[Roeshel]

If you think most tanks will listen if you tell them they are playing incorrectly, clearly you don't play many dungeons using Duty FInder.

I play a lot of duty finder dungeons alone.

I have had some tanks leaving on their own after I talk with them. I don't really need them to listen, if they don't leave I will leave the dungeon or initiate vote kick if they are way too bad. The point is, I am not spam healing to clear content. I am busy out dpsing my dps party members on mob pulls. Dead mobs deal no damage. Spam healing can happen in some very extreme and odd scenarios where it wasn't the tank's fault that so many mobs were picked and they are using cds.

To be fair, most bad tanks who are using 1/5 of their kit only do single pulls and for there you don't need a lot of healing. In my opinion spam healing tanks when they pull more is enabling bad play in 45+ dungeons. I started regularly queueing up as SCH in leveling roulette because it's the strongest healer for lower lvl dungeons. I get so much free heal while dps-ing it's really nice. I don't have to rely on a stellar tank performance to be killing the mobs.