Tanks Pulling Trains (Who's Wrong?)

[RopeDrink]

I met a healer today who would try to mask their lack of button pressing by needlessly running around in circles to act like they were dodging non-existent mechanics. They pressed a grand total of 7 Stones in 20 minutes, usually 1-3 when a boss was practically dead, thrice as many full-HP Medica II's for no reason, and a grand total of 0 Holy's throughout. Despite giving themselves all the time in the world to be 'reactive' (which is a poor substitute for preemptive), they still allowed the tank to die during a mediocre pull in a soft-hitting dungeon (Kugane Castle), and packs took forever. It's not ironic how their chosen method costs more MP and more trouble compared to just lashing out Holy and the odd weave.

The one dungeon I see that consistently gives middling Healers trouble is Bardem's Mettle, which still stings after all these years, and we've no shortage of Tanks who forget this and don't gauge their healer before sprinting off for a no-mitigation opening pull. Always amusing counting how many runs start with a death or three when I head there to level non-healer alt-jobs.

Mheg can be a bit spicy as well, but I've never had any problems there except for real outlier tank moments such as base item-level no-CD pressers allowing everything to go off whilst party lacks DPS, in which case it can be a bit of a slog.

In almost all cases (in dungeons that allow it), it's a simple case of -- setup train, holy it, if no additional healing setup required (asylum, regen, medica, etc), resume holy. So long as the stun goes off, you have ample time to decide how to babysit, with very few tanks needing more than the odd weave, give or take the odd Cure II during a blitzkrieg. Of course, that's purely speaking for myself @ 520, usually with equivelant (or better) tanks, give or take the odd outlier levelling one up with some sub-optimal pieces who thinks it's good to pull wall-to-wall and then 'spread mitigation coz I might need some of it later', when they really should just use them now -- you'll only ever really need one for very specific tank-busters, none of which can kill a tank outright anyway unless they're truly made of paper or eat one on low health for some reason.

Regardless -- individual situations cannot really be explained without recordings. I can tell you how my side went, and give an estimated assumption of how the tank side went, but for accuracy, recordings are king. There's just too many variables one has to consider to truly see if (and how) each side could have done things better.

[Hanayumi]

Could easily fault the tank as well, I generally tank dungeon unless healer is in the recommended needed, but I see so mant tanks that just do not use all their midigation skills while pulling big. Their invulns, reprisal, arms length, or party midgations, dont know why folks hold on to them so much...

[KageTokage]

If a tank is doing big pulls, I expect them to be properly geared and chaining cooldowns.

They don't have any right to be getting mad at the healer if they die because they're passively taking around 10-20% more damage and having around 30% less HP due to still being in level 60 gear for a level 65+ dungeon.

As previously mentioned it's also on the DPS to make sure the enemies are dying before the tank and healer burn out on cooldowns/MP.

[Gabadabs]

If a tank is doing big pulls, I expect them to be properly geared and chaining cooldowns.

They don't have any right to be getting mad at the healer if they die because they're passively taking around 10-20% more damage and having around 30% less HP due to still being in level 60 gear for a level 65+ dungeon.

As previously mentioned it's also on the DPS to make sure the enemies are dying before the tank and healer burn out on cooldowns/MP.

It's okay to do big pulls if you know what you're doing and you're *in sync with your healer*.
But wow sometimes I just think the tanks I run into don't actually know what they are doing. I don't blame them, learning to tank is hard and it's why I stick to healing.

[Deceptus]

It's okay to do big pulls if you know what you're doing and you're *in sync with your healer*.
But wow sometimes I just think the tanks I run into don't actually know what they are doing. I don't blame them, learning to tank is hard and it's why I stick to healing.

I think one of the biggest issues is that leveling dungeons are often more difficult than endgame dungeons and players often forget that. Especially at the start of new expansions.

Dusk Vigil, Siresong Sea, Bardam's Mettle, Doma, Castrum Abania, Holmister Switch are all going to chunk tanks who aren't prepared and actually using their defensive CD's.

[IceBlueNinja]

I think one of the biggest issues is that leveling dungeons are often more difficult than endgame dungeons and players often forget that. Especially at the start of new expansions.

Dusk Vigil, Siresong Sea, Bardam's Mettle, Doma, Castrum Abania, Holmister Switch are all going to chunk tanks who aren't prepared and actually using their defensive CD's.

All true, you literally hit all the key ones I hate as a healer main with a new tank doing them.

[Gabadabs]

I think one of the biggest issues is that leveling dungeons are often more difficult than endgame dungeons and players often forget that. Especially at the start of new expansions.

Dusk Vigil, Siresong Sea, Bardam's Mettle, Doma, Castrum Abania, Holmister Switch are all going to chunk tanks who aren't prepared and actually using their defensive CD's.

Are they really? I just got to shadowbringers, so I've been unaware of that. I just know that this game tends to have some pretty difficult mechanics in some of the dungeons, and an inexperienced tank can make that a frustrating experience.

[Teno]

Are they really? I just got to shadowbringers, so I've been unaware of that. I just know that this game tends to have some pretty difficult mechanics in some of the dungeons, and an inexperienced tank can make that a frustrating experience.

Mechanics and bosses are not the issue. It's that mobs tend to hit quite hard in these dungeons at these levels so the real challenge lies in multiple packs at once.

[Liam_Harper]

Are they really? I just got to shadowbringers, so I've been unaware of that. I just know that this game tends to have some pretty difficult mechanics in some of the dungeons, and an inexperienced tank can make that a frustrating experience.

Definitely. Not only can you outgear them easily, they also hit for much less.

You can run level 80 dungeons easily without a healer, but a wall-pull in Holminster can wipe a tank even with a healer.

[Avenger]

I think one of the biggest issues is that leveling dungeons are often more difficult than endgame dungeons and players often forget that. Especially at the start of new expansions.

Dusk Vigil, Siresong Sea, Bardam's Mettle, Doma, Castrum Abania, Holmister Switch are all going to chunk tanks who aren't prepared and actually using their defensive CD's.

Holminster with paper GNB at the beginning of Shb kind of put me off of healing in general...

DPS pulling hate also seemed to be a thing.