Tanks Pulling Trains (Who's Wrong?)

[Claire_Pendragon]

This is mostly a WHM problem. Also your lowered iLv is a HUGE factor as well (as well as his gear and CDs) it makes a world of difference. Ive tested this with friends, and using gear from the prior dungeon, vs gear from ABOVE the dungeon, and its a night and day difference (ppl will argue otherwise). spamming cure2 is NOT enough to keep a tank alive with gear prior to the dungeons gear. you MUST weave oGCDs, and they MUST use CDs. (And WHM will run into problems eventually, too many unlucky crits, having to dodge or die, DPS take too long to kill, etc)
AST and SCH handle it much better being able to weave in more oGCDs. (testing the same tank, same gear, same CD usage from the tank, and comparing) but lilies do make it much easier, and WHMs oGCDs above 50 also really help a ton.
WHMs primary saving grace is its holy stun, but its FAR more reliant on the groups DPS, its easy for you to run out of oGCDs to weave, and the tank to run out of CDs if the enemy isnt dead in a reasonable amount of time. (Ive seen tanks full pull all mobs in aurum vale while im WHM, and im like, i have no oGCDs, i spam cure2, and my "run out of MP faster" oGCD. (PoM) half way into the fight, im always out of MP.)

But if you have the gear from the NEXT dungeon (higher iLv is better, the sync iLv is above the dungeons drop gear) you'll notice how much easier it is to keep a tank up with cure2 spam, and no oGCD weaved. (exception being 3+ packs, you still need to weave, but its far easier) Weapon of course making a pretty big difference, in comparison to the MND of armor/accessories.

[Roeshel]

Snip

Are we to assume that you know how to play WHM? You just said that you are using Presence in Mind to cast Cure II faster. How are people supposed to take your deduction seriously?

[Deceptus]

Are we to assume that you know how to play WHM? You just said that you are using Presence in Mind to cast Cure II faster. How are people supposed to take your deduction seriously?

If a tank isn't mitigating properly, and pulling bigger than their skill and HP can handle, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

There have been instances where I've had to POM Cure 2 spam. Rare, but it does happen.

[Aluja89]

Are we to assume that you know how to play WHM? You just said that you are using Presence in Mind to cast Cure II faster. How are people supposed to take your deduction seriously?

You don't know how to adapt and I'm supposed to take you seriously?

[Roeshel]

You don't know how to adapt and I'm supposed to take you seriously?

Adapt to what exactly? Obviously, everyone can spam heal and using PoM just gives you one extra cast in the span of 15sec that you are spamming. However, if you are continuously healing 700 cure potency on gcd in The Aurum Vale without overhealing then there is something very wrong with your tank. Instead of adapting to bad play, you might just tell them to start playing properly. I'd rather spam heal a dps or myself after the tank is dead if I have to spam heal. Their job is to mitigate the damage, mine is not to heal their mistakes even though it is possible.

[Gabadabs]

Adapt to what exactly? Obviously, everyone can spam heal and using PoM just gives you one extra cast in the span of 15sec that you are spamming. However, if you are continuously healing 700 cure potency on gcd in The Aurum Vale without overhealing then there is something very wrong with your tank. Instead of adapting to bad play, you might just tell them to start playing properly. I'd rather spam heal a dps or myself after the tank is dead if I have to spam heal. Their job is to mitigate the damage, mine is not to heal their mistakes even though it is possible.

If you think most tanks will listen if you tell them they are playing incorrectly, clearly you don't play many dungeons using Duty FInder.

[Roeshel]

If you think most tanks will listen if you tell them they are playing incorrectly, clearly you don't play many dungeons using Duty FInder.

I play a lot of duty finder dungeons alone.

I have had some tanks leaving on their own after I talk with them. I don't really need them to listen, if they don't leave I will leave the dungeon or initiate vote kick if they are way too bad. The point is, I am not spam healing to clear content. I am busy out dpsing my dps party members on mob pulls. Dead mobs deal no damage. Spam healing can happen in some very extreme and odd scenarios where it wasn't the tank's fault that so many mobs were picked and they are using cds.

To be fair, most bad tanks who are using 1/5 of their kit only do single pulls and for there you don't need a lot of healing. In my opinion spam healing tanks when they pull more is enabling bad play in 45+ dungeons. I started regularly queueing up as SCH in leveling roulette because it's the strongest healer for lower lvl dungeons. I get so much free heal while dps-ing it's really nice. I don't have to rely on a stellar tank performance to be killing the mobs.

[Aluja89]

I play a lot of duty finder dungeons alone.

I have had some tanks leaving on their own after I talk with them. I don't really need them to listen, if they don't leave I will leave the dungeon or initiate vote kick if they are way too bad. The point is, I am not spam healing to clear content. I am busy out dpsing my dps party members on mob pulls. Dead mobs deal no damage. Spam healing can happen in some very extreme and odd scenarios where it wasn't the tank's fault that so many mobs were picked and they are using cds.

To be fair, most bad tanks who are using 1/5 of their kit only do single pulls and for there you don't need a lot of healing. In my opinion spam healing tanks when they pull more is enabling bad play in 45+ dungeons. I started regularly queueing up as SCH in leveling roulette because it's the strongest healer for lower lvl dungeons. I get so much free heal while dps-ing it's really nice. I don't have to rely on a stellar tank performance to be killing the mobs.

....You do realize we were talking about pre Lv50 dungeons right?

[Semirhage]

You don't know how to adapt and I'm supposed to take you seriously?

Setting aside the idea of using Presence on Cure 2 spamming, having seen the state of Mentor Roulette lately? I wonder whether adapting past a certain point is actually detrimental. I've dragged more than one sprout group kicking and screaming over the clear line in some ARR extreme primals. Some groups listen. Most don't. They just pull. They don't care to listen to mechanic explanations. They don't care how the mechanics work. The tanks eat the Shiva cleave alone despite being told that sword mode means share. The Red Mages stand in front with the tank and die. The strategy du jour is just make the healer run out of mana with chain raising + LB3 for the last leg of the fight and beat it through sheer Cure spamming.

Nothing about those runs makes any of the sprouts involved better players. Just encourages them to keep bitching at the healers if they die to avoidable AOEs. It's a test on the healer to see how much BS they can enable. I'm absolutely positive some of those sprout groups rolled on a horse whistle without a single clue how the fight actually works.