Recognizing parasistic game design decision

[Feron]

If we are using the video squadron wouldn't be evergreen, as it was abandoned system for trusts.

Functionally, I don't think that's actually true. Squadrons continually do what they were always designed to do: provide a route for players to solo dungeons of a certain range. Using squadrons to level alternate jobs or clear ARR dungeons is still as effective now as it always was. Trusts can't be taken into earlier dungeons, so it's really not a continuation of the system as much as a completely new system that simply mirrors function. Squadrons also interact with the Grand Company system, which doesn't really carry forward into current expansion(s). Again, a separate system for a separate band of the leveling experience.

[Neoyoshi]

If i didn't know any better, it's almost like some people actually want a system like this, otherwise they wouldn't talk about it so much.

Just let the idea of borrowed power die and pretend it never existed, YoshiP would never allow such a clumsy system in his game.

[CaptainLagbeard]

Well, technically we kind of have a "borrowed power" system... The Relics.

But you have no need to get them as there are other choices for weapons, and they come with a storyline of their own that builds onto the game.
But if you do it them... When they're fully done, they're obsolete 5 levels into the next expansion and then at the new max level, it's off to do another process to make a new Relic.

[Shougun]

Functionally, I don't think that's actually true. Squadrons continually do what they were always designed to do: provide a route for players to solo dungeons of a certain range. Using squadrons to level alternate jobs or clear ARR dungeons is still as effective now as it always was. Trusts can't be taken into earlier dungeons, so it's really not a continuation of the system as much as a completely new system that simply mirrors function. Squadrons also interact with the Grand Company system, which doesn't really carry forward into current expansion(s). Again, a separate system for a separate band of the leveling experience.

Garrisons provide gold which has use at all levels (kind of a WoW version of a retainer) Not trying to be obtuse but I am trying to expect consistent use of terms.

Without a doubt or argument borrowed power seems just... Hokay.. since they take it all away at the end. However, if people want to put garrisons or other concepts into the mix then I don't see FFXIV escaping this conversation. Garrisons were abandoned, so far, yes- but similarly to say about squadrons. Both are contents with a function they still do, neither are removed, both have been relatively abandoned (with trusts or nerfs to their systems, neither look forward in their future hopefully- so far).

[Gobio]

Borrowed power for WOW isn't even a good term to describe how horrible and disrespectful it is.

People listen to the phrase and they think, well they reward you a progression system (like talent tree, legendary weapon, armor, gems, etc...) to your CHARACTER and when your CHARACTER move on to the next expansion they take it away, hence 'BORROWED' power.

But it is really more than that. It is only borrowed power for your main character that actually gone through the live exchanges between expansions. For a new character stepping into LEGEND expansion for the first time, there is no power, the power is already gone. There is no borrowed power for my new alt stepping into LEGEND.

The so called borrowed power in WOW is so destructive that the 'borrowed power' is removed from the game entirely, even for new characters!

[Floortank]

Some prime examples for FF14 are Diadem, Deep Dungeons and Blue Mage.

Those are not borrowed power systems at all. I think you need to rewatch the stuff you linked.

[Vahlnir]

Well, technically we kind of have a "borrowed power" system... The Relics.

But you have no need to get them as there are other choices for weapons, and they come with a storyline of their own that builds onto the game.
But if you do it them... When they're fully done, they're obsolete 5 levels into the next expansion and then at the new max level, it's off to do another process to make a new Relic.

Relics aren't borrowed power. They are alternative weapon upgrade paths.

[Jojoya]

I think parasitic is the wrong word to use for many of the systems being described regardless of the intended definition, especially when it comes to theme park MMOs. They need the independent systems to keep players engaged without leaving us feeling forced into participating content we don't find enjoyable. Those systems also need start and end points so new players don't feel overwhelmed by "I must do all these things to be caught up with veteran players".

If someone is intent on using that word, then I would say parasitic systems aren't always a bad thing. It depends on their implementation. If the only point of the system is force player engagement for a period of time before being removed from the game (or losing its benefit), then it is definitely parasitic and in a bad way.

Most of the systems in this game I don't see as a negative. The closest would be relic weapons (months to grind out, only useful for a short period of time before getting replaced by leveling gear in the next expansion) but even those are completely optional and not necessary to enjoy the game. That's a stark contrast to Legion Artifacts and BfA Heart of Azeroth in WoW, which were core to their respective expansions. You had no choice other than to grind them out if you wanted to play at end game, especially at the Mythic raid level. Even worse, at the end of their expansions the "power" gained through the grinds is literally removed from them. You end up with a basic stat stick.

[strawberrycake]

Honestly Deep Dungeons just need to be built upon, we don't need a new one every expansion, just add more reasons to go back to Deep dungeons every so often, new rewards, prizes for the leader boards, adding kore floors. The issue in WoW and Now 14, which is built off of an older iteration of WoW, is that alot of good content is never built upon or fleshed out in meaningful ways. Both games are havily guilty of this.

Examples of ways they can easily build off of existing systems:

• Adding in the fate systems from Bozja to the over world.
• Scaling things better, building upon S&A rank hunts better and adding in more meaningful rewards for doing hunts that arent A rank and S rank.
• Again building upon existing deep dungeons.
• More Meaningful dungeon designs.
• 4 man content that could be on the same lvl as EX, or Savage.
• Expanding upon the Gold Saucer more regularly.
• Adding more Encounters to Savage.

I'm not asking for new flashy content that will be moot within 2 months of its release, I'm asking them to take their already existing systems and build and iterate off of them in ways that add replayability. I doubt Yoshi P will let 14 end up like WoW, but I would also rather not wait for him to have a revalation on how the lack of iterative design within a lot of the games pre-existing content, can cause a lot of disgruntled people playing 14 and a lot a negative reactions to things that are ultimately well intentioned.

Edit* Also yes I wouldn't call Deep Dungeons Borrowed Power, but I would call it parasitic, its a waste of Dev time at this point, if they keep up with the trend of making content moot so fast into its initial launch within a patch. So long as we have all of these underdeveloped forms of content lacking iteration, it will be parasitic to development budget and time. TO make it not parasitic, it must be iterated upon.

[Hix]

Well, technically we kind of have a "borrowed power" system... The Relics.

But you have no need to get them as there are other choices for weapons, and they come with a storyline of their own that builds onto the game.
But if you do it them... When they're fully done, they're obsolete 5 levels into the next expansion and then at the new max level, it's off to do another process to make a new Relic.

Relics aren't borrowed power. Borrowed power doesn't mean "stops being BIS". A relic is just a weapon that works like every other weapon in the game. Artifact weapons in WoW, which lose all their abilities after Legion, is borrowed power. WoW sets, where the set bonuses shut off at a certain level, are borrowed power.