Recognizing parasistic game design decision

[LianaThorne]

Saying Diadem, BLU and PoTD/HoH could be retired and no one would notice is a bit of a stretch. PoTD/HoH is considered the best leveling method for DPS (outside of roulettes) since queues are so long. Diadem is easily the fastest way to level your gatherers and the materials taken out of there are used to power level your crafters. I wouldn't be shocked if the system was moved into 6.0 and we start building a new housing area through it like we did with Firmament. BLU is loved by many and there are tons of FCs that host their own BLU mage nights. I also doubt you haven't seen tons of BLU flying through FATEs in the overworld since it's extremely useful for fast farming.

Yes, PoTD may not have new content added to it, but that doesn't take away from what it's still used for. Leveling, achievements, mount farms, etc. Things don't have to be constantly updated for them to remain relevant and useful.

[Larirawiel]

Saying Diadem, BLU and PoTD/HoH could be retired and no one would notice is a bit of a stretch. PoTD/HoH is considered the best leveling method for DPS (outside of roulettes) since queues are so long. Diadem is easily the fastest way to level your gatherers and the materials taken out of there are used to power level your crafters. I wouldn't be shocked if the system was moved into 6.0 and we start building a new housing area through it like we did with Firmament. BLU is loved by many and there are tons of FCs that host their own BLU mage nights. I also doubt you haven't seen tons of BLU flying through FATEs in the overworld since it's extremely useful for fast farming.

Yes, PoTD may not have new content added to it, but that doesn't take away from what it's still used for. Leveling, achievements, mount farms, etc. Things don't have to be constantly updated for them to remain relevant and useful.

"Parasitic design" means, that a mechanic does not add much value to the core mechanics of a game. And if you remove that mechanic then the game does not change at all. BLU, Potd, HoH, Goldsaucer etc. are "parasitic" in this case. But IMHO this term sounds way worse than it is. "Parasitic design" can still be fun. The opposite of "parasitic" is "symbiotic". Adding "symbiotic" mechanics alters also the core mechanics of a game. In case of FF14 that would things like holy trinity, aetherit crystals, MSQ etc. If you remove those things then the game will immediately feel completely different.


Cheers

[Shougun]

"Parasitic design" means, that a mechanic does not add much value to the core mechanics of a game. And if you remove that mechanic then the game does not change at all. BLU, Potd, HoH, Goldsaucer etc. are "parasitic" in this case. But IMHO this term sounds way worse than it is. "Parasitic design" can still be fun. The opposite of "parasitic" is "symbiotic". Adding "symbiotic" mechanics alters also the core mechanics of a game. In case of FF14 that would things like holy trinity, aetherit crystals, MSQ etc. If you remove those things then the game will immediately feel completely different.


Cheers

Maybe it should be called supplemental design? And I agree on the need to speak on what the words mean- because it's clear many are not on the same page, and some are not even on the same page for themselves. Many of the negative bespoke mechanics of other games are here too (though many of them are also appreciated).

Supplemental vs symbiotic design does sound less antagonistic!

[Bright-Flower]

Parasitic definitely has negative connotations. And the definition it does have doesn't seem entirely bad to me. I think it's fine that say, the Bozja systems don't interact with the rest of the game. It lets them experiment with other forms of content that won't have a huge impact on the main game, or have to be taken away from the main game like artifact weapons in Legion etc. I think it's ultimately a good thing, so long as the game's main system continues as well.

[SilverObi]

You must not understand what borrowed power actually means OP. I won't go echoing the same statements that have already been made for 7 pages but I will just say this: XIV has enough actual long-standing issues that you don't have to go and start making ones up okay? Did your thrice-a-week thread propping up XIV and bashing WoW get boring or something?

[Puremallace]

Some people seem confused or did not watch the video obviously. Parasitic game design is a very broad term. If content is created for the sole purpose of being a time sink and is not added to later on and effectively abandoned then under the strict definition used in the video multiple areas of FF14 fall under. Eureka without a doubt falls under this as once Stormblood finished they stopped caring about it completely. Bozdja and Zadnor both fall under this definition until you realize one slight change and that was the ability to use it to level from 71 to 80.

The goal of the thread is to recognize features that exist and call them out if they ever try to put them in this MMO. I have a lot of faith in Yoshi P and his dev team but I have very little faith in Square Enix as a company given their track record over the last 10 years.

[Nothv13]

Some people seem confused or did not watch the video obviously. Parasitic game design is a very broad term. If content is created for the sole purpose of being a time sink and is not added to later on and effectively abandoned then under the strict definition used in the video multiple areas of FF14 fall under. Eureka without a doubt falls under this as once Stormblood finished they stopped caring about it completely. Bozdja and Zadnor both fall under this definition until you realize one slight change and that was the ability to use it to level from 71 to 80.

The goal of the thread is to recognize features that exist and call them out if they ever try to put them in this MMO. I have a lot of faith in Yoshi P and his dev team but I have very little faith in Square Enix as a company given their track record over the last 10 years.

These in and of themselves are not bad though. You are trying to paint them as universally bad.

Your examples weren't just stopped because the hell of it. They were stopped because their stories were completed. They literally served their purpose and continue to serve their purpose even after the game has moved on. The only time these systems are bad is if they heavily influence the rest of the game and are made useless by the next release. None of the systems you list for FFXIV do this. Eureka, not useless due to some great glams and the challenge groups that do BA (seriously there are discord dedicated to it). Bozja and Zadnor are the some on that front. Deep Dungeons continue to serve the purpose of leveling tools and way to try out new classes, along with titles, glams and other drops. And none of it is needed to progress.

[Puremallace]

These in and of themselves are not bad though. You are trying to paint them as universally bad.

ok then name a reason why Eureka stopped at Baldesian Arsenal and nothing new was added to Eureka in Shadowbringers or Endwalker? It is effectively a 60 level grind fest for a single mount that could be deleted from the MMO and noone would notice.

Nothing new is going to be added to Bozdja or Zadnor either. In a few expansions noone will be able to get groups to do Delubrum as unlock BA there is no unique mount that looks cool and the Savage one is meh at best.

It all falls under the definition given in the video of content created to expire.

[Mikey_R]

The Echo was added to Eureka in 5.1 IIRC, meaning they did update the zones. There were some other changes as well, though I don't remember them off the top of my head.

However, in the end, does it matter? They are just other things you can spend your time doing. Does it power up your character outside the content? No, but that doesn't matter. Not everything has to do with making you stronger in all content, sometimes, you just need to break off and do something different.

[Ronduwil]

Some people seem confused or did not watch the video obviously. Parasitic game design is a very broad term. If content is created for the sole purpose of being a time sink and is not added to later on and effectively abandoned then under the strict definition used in the video multiple areas of FF14 fall under. Eureka without a doubt falls under this as once Stormblood finished they stopped caring about it completely. Bozdja and Zadnor both fall under this definition until you realize one slight change and that was the ability to use it to level from 71 to 80. .

You're the one who did not watch the video if you're still making that claim. That was just one characteristic of parasitic game design, but the video goes on to clarify that not all throwaway content is parasitic. If it doesn't modify the core gameplay, then it's not a parasitic system; it's a minigame. You're confusing the two concepts. None of the content that you're calling out is temporarily changing the core gameplay in any way the way that parasitic systems do. Eureka has no relevance outside of Eureka, so it's a minigame. If Eureka were to have provided a crucial power boost for the expansion's duration before being completely discarded in the follow up, then it would have been parasitic. It didn't do that. It's simply a minigame that you can still do to this day.