Risk Factor. Can I have it?

[Reaujien]

Dark Ages they say. I say before the MMO catered to the lowest common denominator.

Again, nobody here is saying make FFXI part II. What don't some of you understand about that? Instead we are saying "take some of the many many things that FFXI did right and implement them into this game without the negatives." Look, I could write a thesis on the problems with launch FFXI but it did so many things well that it is simply a fallacy to ignore them.

Marketing to casuals is a lost cause. They won't come over to this game en mass and most of them are happy with WoW, TOR, DCUO or whatever. Add that to the poor reputation this game garnered out of the gate and you are marketing toward the wrong group. There is however, a market for a more difficult experience which no modern MMO currently offers.

Let's take a current example. I was looking at The Old Republic's forum recently and saw people discussing end-game. END GAME less than 2 months after launch. At that point in FFXI, most of us were still trying to figure things out. We had to communicate with each other, cooperate with each other and learn from each other. We didn't get blasted to the end just so we could grind for gear. Instead, we were all part of a greater whole undertaking a journey, we died together and succeeded together. This built a fantastic community that I recall fondly to this day. I never once ran into a dbag playing FFXI during the first 2 years.

I'm of the school that if you don't want to put time into a MMO or commit to it, you shouldn't be on par with everyone else just so you can feel special. A MMO by definition should be massive, not designed to hit max level in a month. This is coming from a low time-investment player, even when FFXI was around at launch. I knew I wasn't going to get to 75 as fast as some of the other players but I enjoyed the difficulty the game presented. I'm sure if you look at the population numbers from FFXI to about 2007 you will see a steady progression and little drop off when compared to current MMO's which people get bored of relatively quickly. FFXI had longevity due to the difficulty curve. Some of it was fake difficulty yes, but some of it was just brilliantly designed game-play.

Back on topic: Remember the first trek to Jeuno? That was absolutely terrifying. Uncharted lands, high level mobs that could easily kill you and a sense of adventure. I felt tremendously elated when I got to Jeuno for the first time.

Can't hit the like button on this enough!!!!

[Khal_Drogo]

Dark Ages they say. I say before the MMO catered to the lowest common denominator....

...we are saying "take some of the many many things that FFXI did right and implement them into this game without the negatives." Look, I could write a thesis on the problems with launch FFXI but it did so many things well that it is simply a fallacy to ignore them.

Marketing to casuals is a lost cause. They won't come over to this game en mass and most of them are happy with WoW, TOR, DCUO or whatever. Add that to the poor reputation this game garnered out of the gate and you are marketing toward the wrong group. There is however, a market for a more difficult experience which no modern MMO currently offers.

Let's take a current example. I was looking at The Old Republic's forum recently and saw people discussing end-game. END GAME less than 2 months after launch. At that point in FFXI, most of us were still trying to figure things out. We had to communicate with each other, cooperate with each other and learn from each other. We didn't get blasted to the end just so we could grind for gear. Instead, we were all part of a greater whole undertaking a journey, we died together and succeeded together. This built a fantastic community that I recall fondly to this day. I never once ran into a dbag playing FFXI during the first 2 years.

I'm of the school that if you don't want to put time into a MMO or commit to it, you shouldn't be on par with everyone else just so you can feel special. A MMO by definition should be massive, not designed to hit max level in a month. This is coming from a low time-investment player, even when FFXI was around at launch. I knew I wasn't going to get to 75 as fast as some of the other players but I enjoyed the difficulty the game presented. I'm sure if you look at the population numbers from FFXI to about 2007 you will see a steady progression and little drop off when compared to current MMO's which people get bored of relatively quickly. FFXI had longevity due to the difficulty curve. Some of it was fake difficulty yes, but some of it was just brilliantly designed game-play....

I couldn't have said it better myself. God I wish every thread started off with a post like this lol ; ;

[Riaayo]

There needs to be some kind of other risk involved with failing to consider your situation before acting AKA: Dieing.

Is the time you wasted fighting only to fail, and then running / teleporting back to the spot and waiting on your weakened not penalty for you? I consider MY time to be worth something, so needless to say I find that when I screw up a fight and potentially have to take several minutes to just get back that's punishment enough. I do not need to go re-farm some exp buffer for an hour or 2 like in XI. That was garbage and if you want that back I just don't even... what is the deal with people wanting games to punish them for failure?

Just make it hard, don't make it kick you in the balls AFTER it already beat you up.

[AdvancedWind]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with taking the GOOD ideas from FFXI and implementing them into FFXIV in a way that makes sense for FFXIV. Honestly I'd be a bit disappointed if they just copy/pasted systems over without even trying to make them work with this game. FFXI had SOME good ideas and FFXIV could certainly benefit from them however we don't need to bring everything over. Some things haven't aged well and some wouldn't work with how FFXIV is. They have the opportunity to make something way better than FFXI ever was and I'd like to see them try to do it instead of being held down by old traditions that have no place in FFXIV.

With enough time I feel that FFXIV can become better, we just need to give it time. I mean also worth considering, they didn't have to rebuild FFXI from the ground up. What we're seeing now isn't the finished product so I mean it makes sense that people aren't happy with how it is in comparison to FFXI and are anxious for new info/patches.

Logic and carefully applied nostalgia?

Not on these forums, I'm sorry.

[Arcell]

Stop making sense Arcell, you are making my brain hurt D:

I just....I can't! It's my curse.

Also your first post was about me, I feel the love <3

[ejiboo]

if i had to refrence both ffxi and what you proposed avy, i'd just say maat . he stopped a lot of weak players in their tracks and forced [certain jobs, in unlucky cases, unfortunately] to gear up, med up and eat right.

the story/gc/etc quests and missions are such a joke in this game to the point where they've become an annoying grind and the fix that seems totally obvious to me is to think of a little gem called final fantasy tactics. you could plow your chars to high level with accumulate and then get fucked in the ass by the level 90 black chocobos, yakno, your choice. it's an extreme example but the premise is difficulty/monster level is relative to your current level and because the level at which you complete the missions and quests in XIV is so varied, it would apply a comparable challenge to whoever attempts them.

keep in mind that only applies to certain content like quests and missions and even moreso those of which apply to DoM/DoW!

i like how combat is, to an extent, currently; fighting multiple monsters at the same time is totally refreshing after playing XI long ago. you can still get bit in the ass if you get overly ambitious and you can still make mistakes in the harder areas of Eorzea, like the strongholds. the repops on monsters are unforgiving and if you can't quickly dispatch your foes then you get overrun pretty quickly. with that being said i would still like to see more challenging and puzzling content, whether the puzzling refers to some sort of actual in game puzzle, strategy, speculation/mystery/weaknesses, etc.

i also agree with whoever mentioned the current streamlining and fixing of the game. that's at the forefront and they're doing a great job-i don't doubt that future content will continue to become better, more intricate in some places and more refined. the XIV dev team is listening to the community to some point and that's great; i feel like it's going to take them a while to get there only because of their current goals which are to fix the disaster XIV once was...AND THEN THERE WILL BE CAKE!

[Sagagemini]

I miss the soloing part.
It got a lot harder and boring to solo.
Now we all Stronghold burn with a full party.

[Rokien]

Is the time you wasted fighting only to fail, and then running / teleporting back to the spot and waiting on your weakened not penalty for you? I consider MY time to be worth something, so needless to say I find that when I screw up a fight and potentially have to take several minutes to just get back that's punishment enough. I do not need to go re-farm some exp buffer for an hour or 2 like in XI. That was garbage and if you want that back I just don't even... what is the deal with people wanting games to punish them for failure?

Just make it hard, don't make it kick you in the balls AFTER it already beat you up.

go play demon souls/dark souls..... Thats what I want for punishment! I wanna throw my controller, I wanna get mad! It makes me try even harder next time!~ As I said, people wanna feel something, they don't wanna be a droid. With great frustration comes great happiness.

There are TONS and TONS of casual games out there, they are becoming the norm because it brings in money. Game companies need to stop catering to people and make stuff unique and not just think about money. Demon souls was one of those games. I want ffxiv to be one as well, even if it has a small crowd.

[Arcell]

go play demon souls/dark souls..... Thats what I want for punishment! I wanna throw my controller, I wanna get mad! It makes me try even harder next time!~ As I said, people wanna feel something, they don't wanna be a droid. With great frustration comes great happiness.

There are TONS and TONS of casual games out there, they are becoming the norm because it brings in money. Game companies need to stop catering to people and make stuff unique and not just think about money. Demon souls was one of those games. I want ffxiv to be one as well, even if it has a small crowd.

Hate to tell you but that wasn't the goal from the outset and even Yoshida hasn't pushed the game in that direction. They're not just gonna do a 180 on their target audience at this point. Again I highly suggest finding a game that caters to your demographic instead of trying to change this game into one.

[Yelta_Sumasu]

I don't want to throw my controller across the room or to delevel if I die but I also don't want everything to be a cakewalk where I can be watching a movie on my other monitor and half the party dying barely slows us down. Both extremes are no fun for me.

We need some activities that fall somewhere in the middle of that. Something where one death in a group won't be the end of the world but a couple of deaths would be a major setback. I want all 8 people to have to pay attention and be on their toes. To have to equip appropriate equipment and come prepared with the right food and medicines.

I want these activities to be dynamic where people have to actually think and react to things to succeed. Something where a couple of screwups would be noticeable and may even cause you to fail the activity.

Please notice I wrote some activities above, I also want activities that I can do in a more leisurely fashion in addition to the above. Heck I want them to also add things even harder and more brutal than what I describe above for those who would enjoy it. We need activities for every playstyle.