Biggest pet peeves when it comes to dungeon runs?

[Xtrasweettea]

So, why is putting regen up before pack has been AOEd at least once by a tank a thing? The tank hasn't taken damage up to this point. Regen doesn't get rollover minutes and any overheal doesn't turn into a shield.

What is the goal of prepull regen or regen prior to first tank AOE? Is it peace of mind? Is that piece of mind ok with the risk of a chance for the mobs that have not been AOEd by the tank (those mobs do not have the modified agro from tank stance affecting them, since it is link agro) to agro you instead? I am honestly curious, I am not trying to be a jerk or anything.

My take is:

• The tank should be sprinting before the first pack, establish that hate on all mobs in one AOE, and maybe using a defensive oGCD (like Arm's Length, the game's sexiest defensive cooldown) and use distance to prevent damage.
• Healers should be keeping up with sprint and start applying dots to the pack.
• If healers feel like they have to regen, do it after the AOE and when everyone is moving. Or better yet, use something like Divine Benison, which generates less agro and is an oGCD. Meaning WHMs can DB the tank and Dia mob without having to deal with global cooldown for one Dia.

This is not a back-seat driver take either. This is what I do when I play WHM and I have no problem keeping even the derpiest of tanks alive.

So yeah, the idea of prepulling or pre-tank AOE regen baffles me.

[ZedxKayn]

So, why is putting regen up before pack has been AOEd at least once by a tank a thing? The tank hasn't taken damage up to this point. Regen doesn't get rollover minutes and any overheal doesn't turn into a shield.

What is the goal of prepull regen or regen prior to first tank AOE? Is it peace of mind? Is that piece of mind ok with the risk of a chance for the mobs that have not been AOEd by the tank (those mobs do not have the modified agro from tank stance affecting them, since it is link agro) to agro you instead? I am honestly curious, I am not trying to be a jerk or anything.

My take is:

• The tank should be sprinting before the first pack, establish that hate on all mobs in one AOE, and maybe using a defensive oGCD (like Arm's Length, the game's sexiest defensive cooldown) and use distance to prevent damage.
• Healers should be keeping up with sprint and start applying dots to the pack.
• If healers feel like they have to regen, do it after the AOE and when everyone is moving. Or better yet, use something like Divine Benison, which generates less agro and is an oGCD. Meaning WHMs can DB the tank and Dia mob without having to deal with global cooldown for one Dia.

This is not a back-seat driver take either. This is what I do when I play WHM and I have no problem keeping even the derpiest of tanks alive.

So yeah, the idea of prepulling or pre-tank AOE regen baffles me.

The tank will take damage while they pull.
The moment the mobs are in range of getting a DoT, doing damage is more important than healing and the healing tool to prioritize when that happens will be Benediction.
So regen is applied so the tank can get passively healed while the healer is DPSing.
Regen also lasts for quite some time and is the best single target GCD heal WHM has afaik, timed correctly, even with a tick or two of overhealing, it's still going to provide more healing to the tank than benison or even a lily can.

[Xtrasweettea]

The tank will take damage while they pull.
The moment the mobs are in range of getting a DoT, doing damage is more important than healing and the healing tool to prioritize when that happens will be Benediction.
So regen is applied so the tank can get passively healed while the healer is DPSing.
Regen also lasts for quite some time and is the best single target GCD heal WHM has afaik, timed correctly, even with a tick or two of overhealing, it's still going to provide more healing to the tank than benison or even a lily can.

So, the point of pre-pull/pre-tank AOE regen is to try to make the fullest use of the HoT for the initial damage the tank will receive. This is with the acceptance of the overhealing and the risk of the tank possibly not being able to AOE in time to establish hate with the mobs who only have link agro and not the modified agro from the tank stance.

Am I understanding your point correctly? I do not want to make assumptions.

[ZedxKayn]

So, the point of pre-pull/pre-tank AOE regen is to try to make the fullest use of the HoT for the initial damage the tank will receive. This is with the acceptance of the overhealing and the risk of the tank possibly not being able to AOE in time to establish hate with the mobs who only have link agro and not the modified agro from the tank stance.

Am I understanding your point correctly? I do not want to make assumptions.

Yeah, in pre-pull overhealing is fine because the GCD spent on casting the heal couldn't have been spent on DPSing anyways, so as long as it heals about anything, it's not a waste. It's very unlikely for a tank to not have his health nibbled at during a pull, even with benison, if regen gives even just a bit of health back, then it wasn't a poor choice to cast it. If the healer gets some aggro for a bit, it's fine, by the end of the pull they're expected to be standing in middle of the mobs close to the tank for their AoE (or CU for AST) so the tank doesn't need to go out of his way to get aggro back anyways.

Personally I definitely see a difference in the tank's health when the pull stops between a pre-pull regen and none, and the former is a lot more comfy.

[Goji1639]

Yeah, in pre-pull overhealing is fine because the GCD spent on casting the heal couldn't have been spent on DPSing anyways, so as long as it heals about anything, it's not a waste. It's very unlikely for a tank to not have his health nibbled at during a pull, even with benison, if regen gives even just a bit of health back, then it wasn't a poor choice to cast it. If the healer gets some aggro for a bit, it's fine, by the end of the pull they're expected to be standing in middle of the mobs close to the tank for their AoE (or CU for AST) so the tank doesn't need to go out of his way to get aggro back anyways.

Personally I definitely see a difference in the tank's health when the pull stops between a pre-pull regen and none, and the former is a lot more comfy.

It's not a huge deal, but one bad thing about Regen during a pull is that it makes it more difficult to grab everything while pulling.

Once I get close to a group of enemies I get proximity aggro, which means they all converge on me in an organized fashion to eat the AoE. If I have regen on, however, nothing converges on me, instead once I'm in proximity everything runs past me. This means spread out enemies don't gather towards me; a close by enemy will have run past me by the time a far away enemy is in range; etc.

[ZedxKayn]

It's not a huge deal, but one bad thing about Regen during a pull is that it makes it more difficult to grab everything while pulling.

Once I get close to a group of enemies I get proximity aggro, which means they all converge on me in an organized fashion to eat the AoE. If I have regen on, however, nothing converges on me, instead once I'm in proximity everything runs past me. This means spread out enemies don't gather towards me; a close by enemy will have run past me by the time a far away enemy is in range; etc.

In such cases it's possible to just time the AoE to hit while they're running past you, assuming you're still somewhat ahead of the healer. They're still grouped, they're just heading behind you rather than directly to you.

[Goji1639]

In such cases it's possible to just time the AoE to hit while they're running past you, assuming you're still somewhat ahead of the healer. They're still grouped, they're just heading behind you rather than directly to you.

They don't all run past you at the same time, though; especially if you're also running forward. The closest enemies will already be too far behind you by the time the far away enemies are in range. That's why it's helpful when enemies are always running to you, instead of away from you during a pull.

[Nestama]

It's not a huge deal, but one bad thing about Regen during a pull is that it makes it more difficult to grab everything while pulling.

Once I get close to a group of enemies I get proximity aggro, which means they all converge on me in an organized fashion to eat the AoE. If I have regen on, however, nothing converges on me, instead once I'm in proximity everything runs past me. This means spread out enemies don't gather towards me; a close by enemy will have run past me by the time a far away enemy is in range; etc.

Not really? If the healer is good, they are going to be near you at all times and therefore make it easier for you to use your AoE combo and even if you miss a few, the healer isn't going to die in 2 seconds because they have the resources to keep themselves alive even while moving.

[SturmChurro]

Not really? If the healer is good, they are going to be near you at all times and therefore make it easier for you to use your AoE combo and even if you miss a few, the healer isn't going to die in 2 seconds because they have the resources to keep themselves alive even while moving.

Usually the healer isn't near me at all, and can barely keep up during pulls, and I'm not even sprinting. I actually have to stop and wait a lot of the time. I can pick up the adds in most cases, by pre-aoeing when they start running past, but it is still a minor annoyance.

[Goji1639]

Not really? If the healer is good, they are going to be near you at all times and therefore make it easier for you to use your AoE combo and even if you miss a few, the healer isn't going to die in 2 seconds because they have the resources to keep themselves alive even while moving.

"If the healer is good" then pretty much anything weird or inconvenient they do won't actually be a problem. Plenty of healers who pregen also lag behind and don't know what to do when they get aggro, though.

Honestly, I can't even remember the last run where the healer was actually anywhere near me during a pull, but that's not entirely on them because they don't have gap closers like tanks do.