Are the numbers too high?

[elreed]

Hello,

Is it possible that we are looking at this wrong?

Perhapse SE's intention was that stats from equipment should be unimportant? Perhaps the intent is that those pieces of equipment should be able to give a LITTLE extra help, a little extra edge. But otherwise not be that important? Perhaps the goal really was a 10-20% boost (depending on how good and how much materia you add)?

This would fall in line with the 'casual' intent? So casual adventurers would 'at worst' be only 10-20% behind the most hardcore adventurer, and therefore not feel bad?

Maybe I'm mistaken and SE has said something to the opposite. Or not. But some nice sticky from the devs posted till the end of time on this topic would be well appreciated.

Might be correct, but i was checking the other day we did a moogle fight and a guy in the party was using parse and told us how we did in every fight, so i have balanced gear as archer not the best yet but still decent, but there was a guy who was an archer too with unmelded gear and a crab bow, well numbers are relative on what u do and all but he always got similar numbers in several runs we did, so in a few words the most geared guy with an ifrit bow and double melded gear had numbers over 50-60k+ while that guy got all the time 30-35k all the time so maybe gear helps a little bit more than what we think.

[Rydin]

It is my opinion on significance of the data, not the data itself. Not everyone finds things as important as me. Rydin was correct that my opinion is subjective, but there really was not any reason to say so, since it should be common knowledge that opinions are such. That being the case, however, there is definitely an effect from stats. That is not subjective. I knew what Rydin was saying, and he was correct that my opinion was an opinion. That doesn't change that I still think that stats have a bigger impact than one may think based on the numbers shown.

Thats all Im saying.. it wasn't a personal attack...
I agree stats work... It says so in the OP... and you know an OP is sacred...
I just would prefer to see more...
I want to see a well geared CNJ with super awesome gear and materia add up to 50% more HP to their Curas....
thats all... Im not refuting you or your findings...
or a geared doing twice the damage of a naked one
I think all the talk of stats really has diluted the message... and I am to blame for that

[Rydin]

Might be correct, but i was checking the other day we did a moogle fight and a guy in the party was using parse and told us how we did in every fight, so i have balanced gear as archer not the best yet but still decent, but there was a guy who was an archer too with unmelded gear and a crab bow, well numbers are relative on what u do and all but he always got similar numbers in several runs we did, so in a few words the most geared guy with an ifrit bow and double melded gear had numbers over 50-60k+ while that guy got all the time 30-35k all the time so maybe gear helps a little bit more than what we think.

that is definitely worth considering... Its just the Moogle fight is SO RANDOM somtimes...
Its hard to make sense of anything.. even Parses
What if he got more hits on the BLM and you got more on the GLA.... Or your best combo was on cool down when the squishy white mage was killed... or you had to kite the the archer when he got big?
The moogle fight presents a lot of variables.

I will say this... Gear Matters... Stats matter
Kaeko is steady figuring out exactly how much
A game is a very delicate balance so no matter what... I'll give this game my all... once we figure out all of whats going on behind the scenes... I just can't help but have preferences over how I would "LIKE" for them to work...

[Eldaena]

Thats all Im saying.. it wasn't a personal attack...
I agree stats work... It says so in the OP... and you know an OP is sacred...
I just would prefer to see more...
I want to see a well geared CNJ with super awesome gear and materia add up to 50% more HP to their Curas....
thats all... Im not refuting you or your findings...
or a geared doing twice the damage of a naked one
I think all the talk of stats really has diluted the message... and I am to blame for that

lol I know you're not against what I said, I'm not upset, but don't you think gear making cures 50% more potent seems like too much?

[Rydin]

lol I know you're not against what I said, I'm not upset, but don't you think gear making cures 50% more potent through gear seems like too much?

as opposed to nude... sure... even if it means reducing your base cure

what if Cura healed for 800 nude with a weathered cane

And healed for 1000 fully geared (no materia)....

and healed for 1200 with applicable materia double melded

Im not really asking for us to be stronger... just that we be weaker when nude... and get more boost from gear

[Eldaena]

as opposed to nude... sure... even if it means reducing your base cure

what if Cura healed for 800 nude with a weathered cane

And healed for 1000 fully geared (no materia)....

and healed for 1200 with applicable materia double melded

Im not really asking for us to be stronger... just that we be weaker when nude... and get more boost from gear

In my original post, I mentioned that just because you aren't wearing gear it doesn't mean your character has forgotten combat or suddenly lost levels. It makes sense that a weapon, being an instrument to enhance your power, could greatly effect your end results, but I don't see why gear should be as much. (Don't get me wrong, I still think it should be effective, but balanced as it somewhat seems to be now.) Maybe super legendary gear one day could, though. Gear for the most part, even dungeon gear, is too easy to obtain now to be anymore powerful than it is, I think. Even though it's extremely rare, you can make fairly powerful gear with materia now, though it is difficult. Kind of the legendary gear of our current time, I guess.

If perhaps it was much more difficult to obtain a level 50 class, unlike now, would you still feel the same way about base stats and the effects we currently get with the gear we have?

[Mychael]

In my original post, I mentioned that just because you aren't wearing gear it doesn't mean your character has forgotten combat or suddenly lost levels. It makes sense that a weapon, being an instrument to enhance your power, could greatly effect your end results, but I don't see why gear should be as much. (Don't get me wrong, I still think it should be effective, but balanced as it somewhat seems to be now.)

You don't "forget how to battle," however, your hands would blister beyond use if you attacked with a sword/axe/spear days on end without gloves; using a bow, again, wthout gloves, isn't the best idea. Also, some gloves improve your grip on the weapon, further improving your accuracy and attack power. Using a heavier weapon, some sort of strap around your wrist would help transfer the weight from your hand itself to the wrist, allowing you to lift greater loads. Without shoes, you would be momentarily pained and unfocused by every rock, twig, bone chip, etc. that happens to be lying around. Belts or certain body garments would help relieve pressure on the back.

It's not all that unrealistic. However, you're right that the increases should be 10~40%, rather than 50%+.

The biggest point I agree with in this thread is that gear should have more of an impact on defense.

[Eldaena]

You don't "forget how to battle," however, your hands would blister beyond use if you attacked with a sword/axe/spear days on end without gloves; using a bow, again, wthout gloves, isn't the best idea. Also, some gloves improve your grip on the weapon, further improving your accuracy and attack power. Using a heavier weapon, some sort of strap around your wrist would help transfer the weight from your hand itself to the wrist, allowing you to lift greater loads. Without shoes, you would be momentarily pained and unfocused by every rock, twig, bone chip, etc. that happens to be lying around. Belts or certain body garments would help relieve pressure on the back.

It's not all that unrealistic. However, you're right that the increases should be 10~40%, rather than 50%+.

Right. I agree with what you said. Properly made and fitted gear for your caliber of fighter (lol) would definitely help, but yeah I think the balance at the moment is about right really. Considering we can even better that properly made/well-fitted gear with materia. You are better with gear than you are without it indefinitely. I'm just saying you aren't completely useless without gear.

[Rydin]

Right. I agree with what you said. Properly made and fitted gear for your caliber of fighter (lol) would definitely help, but yeah I think the balance at the moment is about right really. Considering we can even better that properly made/well-fitted gear with materia. You are better with gear than you are without it indefinitely. I'm just saying you aren't completely useless without gear.

2 things....

1. you're right... you don't forget how to heal because you aren't wearing gear....
But I always think of all gear in a fantasy game being enchanted (with the exception of maybe starter gear) to help you do the things you really need to do

2. I get your point... Yes... in an ideal world getting to 50 is an accomplishment.... but thats what gear requirements are for
Instead of Level 50 giving you the best stats,... level 50 gives you the ability to wear the gear that gives the best stats
So you are still being rewarded for your leveling

[Eldaena]

2 things....

1. you're right... you don't forget how to heal because you aren't wearing gear....
But I always think of all gear in a fantasy game being enchanted (with the exception of maybe starter gear) to help you do the things you really need to do

2. I get your point... Yes... in an ideal world getting to 50 is an accomplishment.... but thats what gear requirements are for
Instead of Level 50 giving you the best stats,... level 50 gives you the ability to wear the gear that gives the best stats
So you are still being rewarded for your leveling

Level 50 gives you the best base stats and gives you the ability to wear gear that gives you additional stats on top of that. Yes, we are rewarded as we level and with the gear we are allowed to equip. It may not seem like much that we gain to some, but it is noticeable. Perhaps, when there is a level cap increase gear will prove to be even more beneficial, as will your level increasing. Perhaps, even to the point that you want it to reflect in what we have now. But the way I've heard you describe your thoughts on the matter seems more unbalanced than what we have currently. That is my opinion, though, that's all.

I feel like Yoshida and the development team have examined and re-examined the balance here, so it is a little insulting to them to question it when we don't understand how stats work in their entirety and we are still only at the original level cap for the game. Though, I do understand where your concerns are coming from, so I am sympathetic to the matter.