Red Mage: Potential adjustments

[Shurrikhan]

If that were true Monk would never have been a problem.

Tbf, it wasn't a problem... until they went out of their way to break it, rather than polish it. Until then it was rough and/or undertuned, rather than an outright problem.

That puts RDM at about 38 actions per minute, which is probably within ±2 APM of seven of the other sixteen jobs. Considering that during about half of our GCDs we have to do a quick arithmetic calculation to decide whether to Veraero or Verthunder in addition to the normal buff and cooldown tracking that every job has to do, I think where we sit on the APM spectrum is fine.

Raw APM has almost never been a good indicator of pacing, though, let alone who is likely to be engaged by the job or how. When and in what way APM spikes or lulls is far more important than the average.

I agree with each of your rebuttals, however. Again, though, the useful lines of discussion here seem more likely aimed at HOW the sword usage ought to be presented (e.g., more than being merely a liabilities-added Foul equivalent) rather than one portion of eGCDs it ought to encapsulate, or what kind of additional thinking/engagement ought to go into the job's playflow rather than merely what technical-yet-generic mechanic out to be slapped atop the kit.

[Kalaam]

Tbf, it wasn't a problem... until they went out of their way to break it, rather than polish it. Until then it was rough and/or undertuned, rather than an outright problem.




Raw APM has almost never been a good indicator of pacing, though, let alone who is likely to be engaged by the job or how. When and in what way APM spikes or lulls is far more important than the average.

I agree with each of your rebuttals, however. Again, though, the useful lines of discussion here seem more likely aimed at HOW the sword usage ought to be presented (e.g., more than being merely a liabilities-added Foul equivalent) rather than one portion of eGCDs it ought to encapsulate, or what kind of additional thinking/engagement ought to go into the job's playflow rather than merely what technical-yet-generic mechanic out to be slapped atop the kit.

It is true that the sword for now feels a bit off sometimes. But after all, RDM is a caster first and the sword is kind of a side-weapon, the main one is the catalyst. (Which is why I hope for a job with the opposite balance someday). I kind of wish RDM was a bit more 50/50 between magic and swordplay, but it'd likely make it impossible to work in a lot of trial and raid mechanics where you need to either be melee or ranged to bait mechanics and stuff. It already feels awful when you have your combo ready have *have* to stick to range because of mechanics.

Also yeah, APM isn't that good of a measuring tool when 80% of those actions are the exact same 4 you cycle through (VerThunder/Fire/Aero/Stone and Jolt) since you've unlocked the job.

[Gruntler]

It is true that the sword for now feels a bit off sometimes. But after all, RDM is a caster first and the sword is kind of a side-weapon, the main one is the catalyst.

Red Mage has been a caster first and melee-er as a side-deal since FF1. You never brought in a RDM to slash things, and its slashes were never, in the history of the franchise, a reason to bring them.

Once FF5 hit, RDM's identity as the machine-gun-caster-of-small-spells was solidified. This is the identity it's had since, and the one they used for FF14.

(Which is why I hope for a job with the opposite balance someday).

Absolutely, they should definitely make a rune fencer/templar/temple knight job.

They don't need to remove decades of identity to make RDM that job.

I kind of wish RDM was a bit more 50/50 between magic and swordplay, but it'd likely make it impossible to work in a lot of trial and raid mechanics where you need to either be melee or ranged to bait mechanics and stuff. It already feels awful when you have your combo ready have *have* to stick to range because of mechanics.

Exactly! RDM is already too tied to melee as it is, and encounter design has to literally be wrapped around it. When you get a fight where it doesn't fit, it feels awful. Making RDM MORE melee would only make those fights awful. Further, RDM doesn't want to be in a position where it's competing for a melee slot, that isn't good for us. Being a caster and being balanced around being that caster slot is a good place for us to be.

Also yeah, APM isn't that good of a measuring tool when 80% of those actions are the exact same 4 you cycle through (VerThunder/Fire/Aero/Stone and Jolt) since you've unlocked the job.

Yarp.

[Shurrikhan]

I kind of wish RDM was a bit more 50/50 between magic and swordplay, but it'd likely make it impossible to work in a lot of trial and raid mechanics where you need to either be melee or ranged to bait mechanics and stuff.

Exactly! RDM is already too tied to melee as it is, and encounter design has to literally be wrapped around it. When you get a fight where it doesn't fit, it feels awful. Making RDM MORE melee would only make those fights awful. Further, RDM doesn't want to be in a position where it's competing for a melee slot, that isn't good for us. Being a caster and being balanced around being that caster slot is a good place for us to be.

So, just some quick food for thought:

Those constraints have far less to do with the portion of swordplay than the bankability of sword skills. The reason RDM has such constrained melee play is that it only has 2-4 GCDs of bankability on an effectively single 4.2-GCD attack (the first two sword skills are 3/5ths GCDs), with thereby massive punishment for starts that cannot complete.

Change that and you could have far smoother, less constrained melee play even if 2/3s of your GCDs were melee, as one could effectively have Bard-like mobility with only a modicum of forethought in balancing out swings vs. casts.

That's not to say I want that much melee, only that, again, the portion is mostly irrelevant. Personally, I just want RDM's sword to feel like a feature, rather than a liability -- a way to improve uptime rather than limit it.