Dps job design issues due to lack of utility.

[Wavaryen]

Jobs used to have more utility than they do now. It caused certain jobs to be favored over others in content. The devs do not want this. They want each and every job not named Blue Mage to be viable in all the content. No one should pick one over the other due to utility.

This is 100 percent facts. Never forget the Dragoon outcasts.

[Awha]

Not going to lie I do have a soft spot for the old bring a certain spec or class for their unique utility.

[Neoyoshi]

I can't remember the last time I saw someone Sleep or Frog a target in a pack of monsters just to lessen the damage output a Tank takes so they don't get overwhelmed.

[Shurrikhan]

Even in WoW, utility such as roots and slows does not really count in expansions through BFA [when I left]. Players ignore content to the extent that the traditional 'hunter' (a class I knew intimately for about 10 years) does not need them. CC that was essential in Sunken Temple and other such instances, has became a joke, since it's easier to burn the mobs down than to patiently wait for your CC-centric classes to do their thing.

At the lowest two levels of difficulty, perhaps, but the thing about WoW's dungeons is that they have more than the one difficulty level we have here in XIV. WoW instead has technically infinite difficulty levels in its dungeons, even if people are only really climbing up to the 30th (normal, heroic, and then up the mythic modifiers). Unless overgeared, you can easily see that utility used by the 5th or so difficulty level out of 30, or even earlier if mistakes occur. By the 10th or so (a mere third up the presently accessed range of difficulty, or roughly two-thirds up to reward caps), those tools are used proactively, and players are expected to be familiar with them.

Even in WoW, utility such as roots and slows does not really count in expansions through BFA [when I left]. Players ignore content to the extent that the traditional 'hunter' (a class I knew intimately for about 10 years) does not need them. CC that was essential in Sunken Temple and other such instances, has became a joke, since it's easier to burn the mobs down than to patiently wait for your CC-centric classes to do their thing.

At the lowest two levels of difficulty, perhaps, but the thing about WoW's dungeons is that they have more than the one difficulty level we have here in XIV. WoW instead has technically infinite difficulty levels in its dungeons, even if people are only really climbing up to the 30th (normal, heroic, and then up the mythic modifiers). Unless overgeared, you can easily see that utility used by the 5th or so difficulty level out of 30, or even earlier if mistakes occur. By the 10th or so (a mere third up the presently accessed range of difficulty, or roughly two-thirds up to reward caps), those tools are used proactively, and players are expected to be familiar with them.

IE: Remember how monk played before the rework?

Like a job, you mean, instead of a corpse? It was battered and gutted by the ShB changes, undoubtedly, but at least it still had some substance. Now...

FFXIV utility is all about increasing damage. So we only see utility jobs that increase damage. This will never change unless we see a dramatic change in direction in the encounter design department.

I wish they'd stop calling that crap "utility". It's literally just others' damage CD, on your bar, that's used with no further thought than a slight influence towards on which GCD your first cast is made, before removing any of the faint flexibility you'd otherwise have in optimizing around your own toolkit in favor of consistency in multiplicatively stacking damage buffs.

That "utility" takes away at least as much depth in-combat (e.g., in adjusting to one's own toolkit) as it gives out-of-combat (in finding the optimal nth GCD for first cast), and adds more punishment (e.g., if any buffer be desynced by death) than depth in either case.

It's rarely fun. It's frequently irritating. It constrains comps. And all it does is move numbers around to obfuscate live job performance metrics in fights that, despite having "utility", are nonetheless a matter of "Striking Dummy, with DDR and periods of screw-your-job-in-particular forced downtime."

[Imora]

Agree to disagree I think we could benefit for more buttons to press especially for healers and tanks.

My DPS jobs have enough buttons, thanks.

I don't want situational garbage. I hate wasting keybind space on stuff I'll never use in wow(looking at you cyclone, which I've used outside of PvP a total of twice this expansion), I don't want to waste my limited keybind space on it here, either.

[Shurrikhan]

It's funny how much more sensitive people get about "situational" skills (despite having never yet played in a context that actually makes use of them) than bloat skills they are nonetheless actually obliged to keybind for all content...

Lucid Dreaming: Does nothing increased passive MP regen or decreased MP costs wouldn't do without it, but actually requires bar space. Raving fans.

Repose: "Situational!" (And therefore obviously doesn't need to be keybound outside of where it'd be useful.) Pitchforks and torches.

[Larirawiel]

No.

We don't need it, and we have enough buttons.

Yes and no. There are many buttons but too many are basically duplicates of other abilities. My WHM has two direct heals with cast time, three direct heals without cast time, two AoE heals etc. Remove those defacto duplicates and you will lose 30% of your abilities.


So i agree with the thread starter. The classes in FF14 are reduced "one trick ponies" compared to WoW classes.


Cheers

[kaynide]

It's kinda already been touched on, but the removal of utility was done to make all the DPS more in line with each other; that is the devs want you to think "We need 4 DPS", not "We need a bard, a dragoon and two black mages".

There is also the design mindset that individual players shouldn't have unnecessary pressure based on their specific job. (eg see the removed DRG piercing debuff or the Battle Litany nerf).

Due to the nature of rotations and burst capabilities that will still exist to some extent...but I think they wanted to design the game more along the lines of a Smash Brothers mindset: all fighters are basically equal in the hands of the average player.

..That said, they could certainly add some forms of utility, but they would need to be very careful about what gets added and if it needs to be across an entire set of jobs (like all ranged DPS get the party Def boost)

There is potential, but personally I think it might to just see a wide variety of options in the role abilities. I'd like to see more abilities than we have slots. Sure, in usual situations we'd have our full DPS loadout, but some situations it would be nice for my DPS to have a def buff cooldown or a raise ability, even if it was melee ranged and gave a very small amount of HP.

[Roeshel]

Ironically FF14 is the better game for metaslaves and the types who focus on dps and nothing else cuz losing gcd to utility is a """dps loss""" lmao

Yes, it is a dps loss. It is not hard to make utility spells oGCD abilities. If you have to choose between dps and some fancy flavour buff that doesn't actually prevent death then it's only logical to choose dps.

If silence is a thing in FF14 then savage & ultimates would be far too easy if it works there, if it doesn't work there then it is more or less useless because in normal content you don't need to be using more than 30% of your kit to clear the content. If a spell is not required to be utilized to achieve optimal gameplay then it is essentially redundant. You can do more by not using it. If you want more utility in the game then the game encounter needs to change drastically. Something that I doubt would happen.

[Roda]

Yes, it is a dps loss. It is not hard to make utility spells oGCD abilities. If you have to choose between dps and some fancy flavour buff that doesn't actually prevent death then it's only logical to choose dps.

If silence is a thing in FF14 then savage & ultimates would be far too easy if it works there, if it doesn't work there then it is more or less useless because in normal content you don't need to be using more than 30% of your kit to clear the content. If a spell is not required to be utilized to achieve optimal gameplay then it is essentially redundant. You can do more by not using it. If you want more utility in the game then the game encounter needs to change drastically. Something that I doubt would happen.

Silence is a thing, but it's more a quick time event for tanks.

Also interrupts work well when they 1, have cooldowns, and 2, require group participation.