Dps job design issues due to lack of utility.

[DiaDeem]

Wait.. you mean like how it used to be with PLD with Res and Stoneskin and the like?

I don't know. I much prefer focused Jobs that can be more easily balanced than having 900 different cross-class skills I could equip if I wanted but that in the end someone is gonna find an optimal way to do it and if you don't do it that way you're playing your job "wrong"..

[VirusOnline]

Some examples to show what I mean by utility because I also include personal defensives and major self heals

-Venthyr mm hunter and I had: aoe root, threat redirection, 6s immunity, 20% DR for 6s, personal heal cd 30%+15% dot, single target slow, aoe trap slow, single target 60s cc, speed boost cd, enrage dispel, short range jump covenant ability, stealth detect flare and obviously interrupt.
-Necrolord shadow priest: Detect radius reduction, 4s silence, personal HP boost by 25% that also heals that amount+10%, CC undead, Covenant 40% shield on 2 min cd with 3s cast time, small absorb shield with low cd, mass magic dispel, magic dispel from enemies, disease dispel, aoe fear around you, threat removal from yourself, grip friendly, talented targeted stun, heal cd that heals based on damage

And what did it create for WoW ? Imbalance. Preference. Favouritism. Convenants increased that by gross amounts and even more locked you into the content you wanted to play. Who would take a Venthyr Ret Paladin into Mythic+ dungeons ? Actually, gross ret paladin when boomkin?
Utility by nature, especially when varied from class to class creates imbalance. Even more so when WoW doesn't care to fix the imbalances.
Personal utility be damned when when an expansion drops in WoW, all raiders there care about is figuring out what the meta is and figuring out what classes to bring into end game content.

Not only that but those make you often less reliant on others, dispelling yourself is far better than waiting for the healer to remember to do it and big self heal cds are extremely useful in cases like getting hit by a mechanic or the healer not being able to handle with the unavoidable aoe damage, things like defensives also become extremely valuable during high burst moments that allow healers more room to breathe, thinks like threat drop/redirection/speed boosts can even allow for some amount of kiting of bosses if the tank dies giving people enough time to brez the tank or others. You can do some crazy pulls thanks to aoe stuns, roots, slows that couldnt happen without all that combination of utility in often even a single job, this gives a lot of control to the a single dps player to affect an encounter and I am not even going to go into heavily coordinated groups, you can imagine what can happen since that utility allows you to do content far higher than what you would mathematically be able to do if all that utility as not available.

Meanwhile in FF14 you are quite literally at the mercy of tanks and healers because the only thing you have control over is dps, the design feels a little too choreographed not allowing much room for thought and change (Though thought is not something metaslaves care about since they just do what guides tell them blindly)

Ironically FF14 is the better game for metaslaves and the types who focus on dps and nothing else cuz losing gcd to utility is a """dps loss""" lmao

IMO, the gameplay is why XIV differs from WoW in how utility comes into play. XIV is methodical whereas WoW is just random events that ... happen.
Mobs in XIV are predictable and do not vary much in skills in a single wall to wall pull.
Mobs in WoW are chaotic if you dare pull wall to wall. Sanguine Depths and Plaguefall must be planned out with utility. You want to talk about metaslaves ? M+ is metaslave central.

I greatly prefer XIV if it comes at the cost of bare minimum utility. Usually, the scenario goes:
If you die because you weren't debuffed, that's the healers fault.
If you die because the tank didn't voke, that's the tanks fault.
If you die because you didn't pass the dps check, it's the dps' fault.

The idea isn't about being less reliant, it's about being even more reliant on each other, because you clear content as a group. In savage, it's as a group of 8. The reliance is what creates the difficulty of savage. Where's the risk if you always feel in control of an encounter ? That's as boring as DBM.
And this is how a group works together to down a boss and there's nothing wrong with it and it works and it teaches each individual to be more present and responsible for their role. It eliminates complexity for players who want the casual experience and it bumps up personal role responsibility in savage content.

[Penthea]

For the utility you want to be meaningful FF's encounter design would have to change drastically. Then it would no longer be FF's combat design but just a copycat version of WoW's. If you want WoW's combat then go play WoW. It's fine to have preferences but what you want would HUGELY change a core element of the game, which would end up alienating the playerbase who are already used to how it has been for a long time and enjoy it.

And I say this as someone who played WoW for over a decade before playing this game. If I wanted WoW's combat I wouldn't be here.

Also you talk as if only dps are at the mercy of the other roles, which is far from the truth. If the dps is too low or are bad at dodging it can make my job as a healer a nightmare.

[Tulzscha]

Job design is the most lacking aspect of FFXIV for sure. Another part of the game that's lacking however are dungeons. I think there could be a way to give jobs more unique things to do primarily for dungeons and possibly alliance raids but certainly not savage raids or trials. Utility requires mechanics to enable them so only include those mechanics in non-competitive content and problem solved.

Or utility could be made more widely available like how we used to choose abilities to gain from other jobs, we could have a system like that but for utility. Make the abilities available to at least everyone in a specific role, then it's just a matter of deciding who does what. It's not as interesting as job-specific utility but it's a way to give players more varied things to do than run over here or run over there.

[UsagiAndCrepes]

It could always be more like something else. Likewise something else could always be more like something else's something else. The complexity is on a continuum and it could be adjusted in either direction depending on taste. If they did it well then they already picked the spot where they want to be to get the best experience to maximize the appeal to the target audience.

Could it be designed more complex with more choices? Sure.
Would that make it more fun and engaging? Sure, for some.
Does the current design impair their goals with their average target audience? Probably not.

[Zoliru]

Job design is the most lacking aspect of FFXIV for sure. Another part of the game that's lacking however are dungeons

Agreed, dungeons might look different visual but when it is literally just tank & spank it gets boring quite fast