Normal Raids aren't exactly Raids, are they?

[TheRealQuah]

I’ve been saying this for years! Even the “raid” instances have been less unique over time! Eden had a few good fights but overall probably was the weakest raid tier in terms of ambition.

Some may argue that the formula is fine and those some also love stagnation, if we can’t raid then make some sort of 8man content that does, we didn’t even get a deep dungeon this expansion so it really feels SHB was just a handful of platform trial fights not so much removed from Ex trials and a pretty decent amount aren’t as fun as previous trial fights let alone “raid” trials

Have you done Savage? I don't know if you can claim something is the "weakest raid" if you haven't played the content.

Everytime I see a thread like this it's from people who don't play savage or all of the content and then moan that it's unfulfilling. No one serious about raiding wants to fight trash when progging/farming fights.

Normal mode is going to feel unfulfilling, savage is the content that matters. Normal raids only exist because casuals were complaining all the time about not being able to access story content because it was too hard. People should be lucky that it exists in the first place.

There's barely any high end content in the game now, the game is catered to casuals. Can people stop complaining about one of the only pieces of content good players have left to do.

[ReiganCross]

Normal mode is going to feel unfulfilling, savage is the content that matters. Normal raids only exist because casuals were complaining all the time about not being able to access story content because it was too hard. People should be lucky that it exists in the first place.

There's barely any high end content in the game now, the game is catered to casuals. Can people stop complaining about one of the only pieces of content good players have left to do.

I think that saying "Savage is the content that matters" is going a wee bit too far. We definitely need stuff for people that enjoy breezing through story and feeling empowered by being this all-mighty badass Warrior of Light, I believe this content matters just as much as Raiding. "Casuals" are just as precious to me as hardcore raiders and I will gladly power my DPS up to carry them if I have to.

I'm currently still progging through E10S so I'm not sure about lacking of High-End Duty but you're right that there aren't many options. All that I can see is trying to Sync old content or maybe Delubrum Savage? I think Ultimate will only come once I clear E12S, right? So I don't even have that option (Not that I'd want to go through that without my Edenmorn gear anyways.) But yeah, we could use some Deep Dungeons or something tough aside from Savage Bosses. But end-game duty wasn't exactly the point I wanted to end up.

I'm saying that I really wish we could have consistency in Raid's architechture. A feeling that I'm raiding this gigantic place, which I believe Alexander and Coils got right. Hell, Coils even gave you a yalm count of how deep you were into it, and even then it wasn't exactly clear what the structure was, it was just a bunch of Allagan fragments of Dalamud. It certainly wasn't a bigass Black Temple on the end of a cliff, or an Icecrown Citadel sitting on the top of a mountain, or the depths of Molten Core, or... I don't know, maybe something after WotLK, never really played past that. Normal Raids aren't feeling like PLACES anymore, Karazhan felt like a tower, Ulduar felt like a complex, Eden feels like a shallow plot device.

[Karshan]

I think that saying "Savage is the content that matters" is going a wee bit too far. We definitely need stuff for people that enjoy breezing through story and feeling empowered by being this all-mighty badass Warrior of Light, I believe this content matters just as much as Raiding. "Casuals" are just as precious to me as hardcore raiders and I will gladly power my DPS up to carry them if I have to.

I'm currently still progging through E10S so I'm not sure about lacking of High-End Duty but you're right that there aren't many options. All that I can see is trying to Sync old content or maybe Delubrum Savage? I think Ultimate will only come once I clear E12S, right? So I don't even have that option (Not that I'd want to go through that without my Edenmorn gear anyways.) But yeah, we could use some Deep Dungeons or something tough aside from Savage Bosses. But end-game duty wasn't exactly the point I wanted to end up.

I'm saying that I really wish we could have consistency in Raid's architechture. A feeling that I'm raiding this gigantic place, which I believe Alexander and Coils got right. Hell, Coils even gave you a yalm count of how deep you were into it, and even then it wasn't exactly clear what the structure was, it was just a bunch of Allagan fragments of Dalamud. It certainly wasn't a bigass Black Temple on the end of a cliff, or an Icecrown Citadel sitting on the top of a mountain, or the depths of Molten Core, or... I don't know, maybe something after WotLK, never really played past that. Normal Raids aren't feeling like PLACES anymore, Karazhan felt like a tower, Ulduar felt like a complex, Eden feels like a shallow plot device.

UCoB is unlocked with O4S, UwU with O8S, and TEA with E4S. No need for E12S. And you'd rather go with adpated BiS than synced Edenmorn for Ultimate.