Risk Factor. Can I have it?

[Matsume]

And what does making the content "harder" do for your sense of accomplishment? Do you think those people, like myself who have done Ifrit idk... like the 50 times this weekend and haven't gotten drops makes it feel like I accomplished something? Sure wolves are cake so what? At least I'm actually playing the jobs unlike others who get PL'd all the way there and have no idea how to play their jobs. Same issue with Mana burns and such in XI. Making it more difficult to kill something doesn't induce a feeling of accomplishment personally but having it easy doesn't either.

As for your example of your PUG ... dare you to ask a new player with no idea how 14 works if THEY think doing that is easy or hard. lol For you and I with jobs leveled such as Con for Cure or other jobs we can drop abilities into, sure we can run it naked and survive but that doesn't mean it's not challenging. Freaking Swarms are STILL a PITA compared to other mobs especially 1 or 2 lvls above you. But Marmots, may not be.

So I'm curious why for you Matsume, why does making something incredibly hard make you feel like you "did" something?

It was a simple analogy between FFXI and FFXIV exemplifying a difference in diffculty and a sense of accomplishment.

In FFXI, you could already have a job at lvl 75 but that wouldn't make an even prer or difficult prey any easier to your lvl 1 or 5 warior on that same account. Whereas in FFXIV, you are right, the fact that I have leveled CNJ and obtained cure allowed me to survive a battle of 4 even leveled chigoes at lvl 5. This would not be the case in FFXI.

As for killing Ifrit 50 times without a drop, all i can say is I am sorry for you. That must suck. I got 7/7 weapons in less than 100 Kill. And, as much as I am relieved, I don't feel like I've "accomplished" anything. And no, Ifrit is not at all hard once you understand what to do. That's why I said, I feel like this game lacks a sense of accomplishment that is provided by surmounting difficult obstacles. Even Moogle is easy once you've got the lol5ARC strategy under control.

You are right, to a new player this game might seem difficult, and my subjective opinions are indeed tainted by the bias I have coming from having played FFXI for years, as well as WoW. But, I have a social ls that openly accepts new players and helps them figure out how to get things done and how thins work in, general, thus I have hope for them newbs.

Just my two cents.

[Geesus]

Dying in 14 can be a pain if you forget to set your HP. lol Otherwise, no, it's more shame than anything.

[Matsume]

that was ff11 once upon a time. someone in my shell got lvl 50 in a matter of hours recently they said.

I haven't played FFXI in years. I am specifically referencing the Golden Years of Chains of Promethia and the Rise of Zilart.

LOL at your increasingly large sig, +1

[Elgeron]

Play while hanging outside the window, you can´t get more risky than that !

[Rokien]

I think a handy dandy rokien thread belongs here!~ I believe making the fights longer some how, while retaining the linkage system would be amazing
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Longer-fights

[elreed]

I'm also hoping that Job quests will involve solo fights, where gear and player skill makes or breaks the difference. I mean the sort of fights In any previous final fantasy, where you knew gear/food preperation was key because the fight was so tough. Given how easy it is to level in this game, we should at LEAST retain wearing appropriate gear.

I agree with everything with the OP. especially i would like to have hard job quest and if they can make some kind of maat's fight to raise level, that was a bad ass fight i remember as DRK in FFXI i had to make a lot of preps before the fight, it was those kind of quest where it was easy to wipe and the fear factor was awesome, same for places i would like to be walking having the fear of getting aggro, right now i can walk wherever i want except those places with lvl 70-99 mobs, if you want to understand more about that fear factor go to those places trying to get to the aetherite, thats how FFXI was.

[Arcell]

Another point i meant to bring up. No one cares about dying in FFXIV, where as in FFXI if you died you lose exp and *gasp* sometimes DELEVELED!!!

This was actually a good thing. It provided the "push" part of the "push and pull" towards end game and long term interest. The "pull" was the fact that it was hard to level up, so being lvl 75 anything was an achievement in it's own. Low level players looked up to lvl 75s in their shiny AF armor and attracted them as much as did the hard to get weapons and gear that also provided a "pull" towards end game.

The exp loss per death coupled with the difficulty of gaining exp provided the perfect balance between incentive towards lvling up and disincentive against carelesness that would cause death. And, considering that if you died your party was likely to die and EVERYONE would be penalized, that alone was another incentive pushing people towards paying attention, gearing themselves out, and being extra careful with top notch strategy and awareness.

No, that wasn't a good thing. It was an awful punishment and a timesink. If they ever put de-leveling in this game, I'm quitting. Sometimes death isn't always your fault, as your example even mentioned. Sometimes it just takes one member of the party to screw up and everyone dies. I've died more times than I can count on shitty pulls and hell on Ifrit alone it's dozens. This is not a game made for such hardcore players. I don't want progress taken away from me just because someone screwed up, or even if I screwed up.

You want to know what my motivation is for playing well? To not suck and bring the party down. What a novel concept, playing well for the sake of playing well. What happened to that? Do we really need to be kicked in the nuts every time we die? Can't we just die and accept that as a failure and work to better ourselves? Do we really need to be punished for every death?

If there's one thing I can't forgive in a game it's wasting my time and XP loss/de-leveling is a huge waste of time. If people need that kind of thing to play well, I'd rather not play with them at all.

[ArnoMorley]

All I can say to people is be careful what you wish for, that's part of the reason why the game has no risk factor and no sense of reward anymore.

You know the market wards? That was fan requested, all of the "I hate the AH" whiners gave us this crappy system when XI had a system that worked.

"I don't want to lose exp when I die!" well congrats now dying doesn't scare anybody

"I'm sick of camping nms for hours and not getting a claim" - Thanks so much for this one, I loved nms in XI now they're a stupid boring grind fest. LL, valkurm emp and etc used to be you'd kills phs for a while, then it pops up in your widescan and it's like "Oh snap!" for the next few minutes trying to claim was a rush like no other, then if you got claim it was exciting to see if you'd get the drop. And when you finally did there was no way to put a price on that feeling.

"I don't like it taking so long to get to endgame" - Now it takes maybe a week, and all low level content is useless

"I want crafted gear to be the best so I don't have gear I can't sell" - All U/U gear except weapons being worthless

"I don't like time sinks!!"

"I don't have hours to spend on a game"

"I don't want an ffxi clone"

Whenever you're all wondering why something is wrong with this game look to all the whiners they listened to. All of the people who were too lazy to actually put time into the game and couldn't handle any competition made it so that it wasn't fun for the rest of us. I just wonder why SE decided to give into those people instead of rewarding all of the FFXI lovers who stuck by them for all those years.

[Elgeron]

How about each time you die, you character is deleted and a message saying "YOU DIED" and make you start over ?
Roleplayers will love that I bet you that !

Now SERIOUSLY, how about a loss in guil? You will lose guil depending on your level,it isn´t that hard to recover but just enough annoying to make player want to avoid diying.

And nowadays player have lots of guiles right?

[syntaxlies]

How about each time you die, you character is deleted and a message saying "YOU DIED" and make you start over ?
Roleplayers will love that I bet you that !

Now SERIOUSLY, how about a loss in guil? You will lose guil depending on your level,it isn´t that hard to recover but just enough annoying to make player want to avoid diying.

And nowadays player have lots of guiles right?

back in the day games would make you run back to your dead body, through dungeons and everything taking hours if not days. some games would have it so you were like a ghost and people could rob your corpse while you were gone.