Open World PvP

[Eldevern]

Yet, whether we like it or not, we need to both admit they have reduced the amount of gear rewards from Frontlines and they offered PvP progression (which has been cut), and look, if you can't even admit that than there's no credibility in your arguments. I think you''re talking to the wrong guy, I am not the OP, who is asking for open world PvP.

I disagree about the fact it is unfair.

Why did they changed the PVP that way (no more materia, synchronization etc.) ? The behavior of some players. The unbalanced experience between factions (Maelstrom were the favorite during ARR). The problem of balance between a stuffed player and a beginner. The lack of interest from a lot of players too.

And finaly, with the roulette change, they try to make players experiment other maps that the 24vs24vs24 because most players were going to this map or not playing PVP at all. And my guess is it doesn't work so well since they plan some changes to invite players to engage in "small scale PVP".

[NW3]

I disagree about the fact it is unfair.

Why did they changed the PVP that way (no more materia, synchronization etc.) ? The behavior of some players. The unbalanced experience between factions (Maelstrom were the favorite during ARR). The problem of balance between a stuffed player and a beginner. The lack of interest from a lot of players too.

And finaly, with the roulette change, they try to make players experiment other maps that the 24vs24vs24 because most players were going to this map or not playing PVP at all.

There is still bad behavior in Frontlines. It is still a problem. This problem is apparent in every game that involves playing against another player. Sometimes it's in good fun, sometimes not. I don't like it myself. I love PvP. I love progression (what MMOs are about), we progress in MMOs. The "unbalance" or popularity of Maelstrom is not a PvP problem! Limsa is the most crowded city in every server. It is the favored hub of this MMO. But you blame PvP?! Still, they have fixed that anyway with the introduction of freelancers. Now you actually complain about the difference between a "stuffed player and a beginner" yet the problem exists in PvE as well and that apparently is not a problem. Do we omit all gear stats for everyone then? Your logic is flawed still if you cannot agree with me that even if geared, you still need to learn your class and play it right in both PvE or PvP regardless of gear stats (progression). So, what's your point?

Dude, you're getting upvoted but not even addressing the real issues that I am trying to explain exists currently. You can't let players cheat in Feast. You can't reduce rewards with each expansion. You are a paying customer to a AAA MMORPG. A AAA MMORPG is quite the standard. They once offered that standard and it has been reduced.

You are ignoring the problems that exist and even getting upvoted for it. Do I need to post threads from the PvP section now regarding these problems that need attention?

Man, I don't know if you are even trying to listen to what I am writing anymore. In regards to your roulette change, the Frontlines queue is 5 min or less. It's active. And I mean it's active from 2 PM central time to 12 AM right now. That's 10 hours of non-stop PvP if you want. But what happened to the rewards? Are you listening? What happened to the rewards? They're less!

[Eldevern]

...

Because I play the game since the Beta. I know the reason why players were switching to Maelstrom. I've heard them on Mumble (some were replying that it can only be worst if all players left to go to Maelstrom but without much success).

Now, I'm talking for UE servers. I know from the forum how NA servers can provide a huge difference with UE servers as JP servers provide a real different experience from UE or NA servers too.

As a side note : NO PVE stuff problems and PVP stuff problems cannot be compared, they don't have the same impact since it is not the same "nature" of gameplay. PVE is far less about the stuff than the "dance". One mistake in PVE can kill even someone with the high-end stuff. In PVP, stuff can (could) make fights totally one sided.

[NW3]

Because I play the game since the Beta. I know the reason why players were switching to Maelstrom. I've heard them on Mumble (some were replying that it can only be worst if all players left to go to Maelstrom).

Now, I'm talking for UE servers. I know from the forum how NA servers can provide a huge difference with UE servers as JP servers provide a real different experience from UE or An servers too.

Well hey, isn't it different now from then? Why are we still talking about that if they resolved it. There are freelancers now. Again, that wasn't a PvP problem! Limsa Lominsa is THE hub for every server! Man!

You going to answer my questions now? I've been replying word-to-word which each of yours, you've still failed to respond to mine. What happened to the rewards?

[Eldevern]

...

The reward?

- Since the stuff has no meaning (no more "statistics"), they don't feel the need to add new ones
- There's not enough players (NA+UE+JP -NA is not the center of the World-) to justify to invest time in it
- Lack of ideas (honestly it wouldn't surprise me, sad, yes, but considering recycling in Raids or crafted stuff... no really strange)

Side note 2 :
NA worlds gather more servers than UE, queue can be shorter for this reason.
In my experience, even when queues were short, we could often see the same players names coming back

What I can say is all decisions made by SE reflect the statistics of the game. As COIL lead to the decision to make "normal" and "sadic" modes, the idea to make "small scale PVP", more "casual" and "no role lock" hardly can be understood another way than : the Feast (and PVP in general) is not that successfull.

[Fland]

I don’t know why it’s fine? Dude, open your eyes. They gave you one less Frontline gear set reward last expansion. That is fine? You talk casual PvP, but you're paying to log on to this game to PvP. Unlike real casual PvP games like LoL or Valorant that are free to play, is it not somewhat an obligation to get an AAA MMORPG PvP experience? I only said WoW because it's their only competitor atm with the exception of Ashes of Creation, also subscription-based, but it's not even AAA. I think it's unfair that you argue to reduce further the already reduced AAA PvP experience FFXIV once offered. On top of this, everyone says PvP is an afterthought (that's my word, you should read what they're really saying). If you are on Twitch, hear what people say about FFXIV PvP. I don’t think you’re being fair and honest with yourself here. Personally, I think they’re refining some things but they’ve taken away the progression, not listening to the community’s pleas regarding cheating, they took away from players that enjoyed every facet their game had to offer.

I must reiterate that if you hear what people say about FFXIV PvP and are honest with yourself and fair to me, an equally paying customer, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. I’m not asking them to take anything away from PvE. That's the main ride. That wouldn’t be right.

They aren’t a small team, and I’m confident they can give PvP a little more attention.

I agree that we get less PvP gears for glamours this expansion, but that's because we get reduced content overall in the game due to the pandemic, so it's understandable.

And yes it's fine that PvP does not get as much focus as PvE because, as have been mentioned multiple times in this thread, this game is not a PvP-oriented MMO. It would get about as much focus as the other side contents.

I also disagree that just because this is a subscription-based MMO, it has to have the same level of PvP with the other subscription-based MMOs. Every subs-based MMO has their own strength, FFXIV just happen to be not it's PvP. I don't know why people subscribe to this game expecting the same level of PvP as WoW when they have never implied this would be the case.

Could they give more focus to PvP? Sure. Would they? At this point, I don't think so.
We just have to wait for the new PvP contents in EW and see how the playerbase responds to it.

[Almagnus1]

I agree that we get less PvP gears for glamours this expansion, but that's because we get reduced content overall in the game due to the pandemic, so it's understandable.

Simple solution:

Bring back the Garo event.

[StarRosie]

Simple solution:

Bring back the Garo event.

Yeeeeeeesssssssss! I need Gouten. As a huge Garo fan, not getting Gouten is a huge regret

[Dragonblanco]

So devs are taking penalty away from deaths now. They make PvP more and more forgiving.

Please don’t tell me it’s only the FFXIV community that’s that soft. You’re now telling me on a PvP server it’s wrong to be assassinated, for example, because that’s what say, a Ninja in FFXIV would do? It’s wrong for a BLM to nuke you from afar while you’re exploring the open world on a PvP server? Now it’s coming to this?

People complained on WoW too. Nobody liked to be camped. The way WoW worked at least when I played it is you could toggle PVP on or off, but only when you were in your territory. When quests took you to neutral territory, part of MSQ, that's where griefing would happen left and right. You couldn't shut off PvP and community had died. So you'd be in Outlands trying to level and idiots would just come out and camp. You couldn't do anything and no higher levels would come out to fight them off. It killed the game for newer players as it prevented them from actually accomplishing anything.

Similar issues happened when I played ArcheAge Unchained. Too many higher levels camped low level towns and it became nonstop. Eventually higher levels stopped wanting to protect and you were left with no choice but to be screwed and unable to advance in leveling or questing. Obviously I have a lot to say about people who are unskilled and only able to pick on the "weak" and new players. They aren't looking for pvp but instead just wanting a way to be able to bully people to make up for their own insecurities.

Just because a person doesn't lose experience or items upon death doesn't mean it's okay to die, come back, get killed again, and repeat for hours on end until you just decide to log out for the day or have to go do side content elsewhere because some idiot is camping areas they KNOW people have to go for MSQ. Again, I didn't say it's wrong for pvp. I said it's wrong when people abuse it and have no respect for other players.

Btw, other thing I pointed out about FFXIV in a different comment is open world pvp doesn't work with our story. Everyone is allies. They'd have to rewrite to let people somehow be part of the Garlean Empire or would have to do something like Pirate faction in WoW and ArcheAge. So if they could figure out how to make it work with lore, be able to prevent people from camping/griefing low level players, etc I'd be all for it. But otherwise it just has no place here. Again, it's about keeping with lore and the type of community they are trying to build in FFXIV. For people who want more pvp, go to the games for it. Just means games like FFXIV isn't for you.

[Theodric]

I had a lot of fun turning the tide of a battle in open world PvP in the MMO's that allowed for it. I don't think it's fair to suggest that 'nobody' liked to be camped. I did and know others who did as well. It was part of the thrill and danger like in a horror game where an enemy could be lurking around a corner or waiting to strike at any moment.

Whenever it happened I'd call upon some friends and we'd seek our revenge. Often we'd turn the tables and send the player in question fleeing but if they brought reinforcements then the battle would escalate into a war. More than once I remember a skirmish in one zone escalating into a full on assault against the enemy faction's capital cities. Something which was tough but not impossible to do. Achievements were even tied to it, if I recall correctly.

I'd expect anything in FFXIV to be on a much smaller scale but as I suggested earlier on in the thread some sort of hostile 'no man's land' where every player, NPC and monster could be attacked would capture a fraction of the same atmosphere. PvP doesn't have particularly deep lore in this game as it stands, so I don't think it'd need more than a few lines of dialogue to justify it - which is precisely what is used to describe pretty much every PvP instance in-game already.

Maybe tie it to a particularly fierce Xaela tribe or some such.