Open World PvP

[Dragonblanco]

A casual is by definition someone who irregulary plays the game whenever he/she feels like it and only aims for a uncorncerned and relaxed playstyle. This is not MY definition about them, but the way how it is as a matter of fact. And i despise the thought that difficult content gets dumbed down for those kind of people, just so that they can continue to play half-heartedly.

I know Artemiz kind of responded, but I will jump in there. A casual is just someone who casually plays. They might be someone who goes to college, works full time, and has a life outside of the game. They play when they can but can't log in a whole bunch of hours. I mean, we sometimes call people at this extreme a "filthy casual" but they are casuals nonetheless. I actually know people like this, some of them in the military. They want to be on but they get shipped out on missions and sometimes in places with no internet connection. So they will go days, weeks, or months without being able to play. Then when they get back and able to play, they go as hardcore as their schedule allow them.

Then there are people who have obligations but nothing as significant as previously mentioned. They take care of real life obligations and then hit the game when they can in their spare time. It doesn't equate to as much as they may like, but they get on for their 1-2 hours a day, maybe more on the weekends or days off.

Lastly, there are people like me who are disabled and have absolutely no life. Consider us NEET or whatever, but we spend 8-16 hours a day playing FFXIV.

Now, how would you suggest you'd release content that would make the game enjoyable to all of these people? That's the challenge. I think FFXIV has done a very good job in that, by trying to do synced dungeons, roulettes, etc. They try to keep more active and higher leveled players interacting with others so we can all progress. But they also add in things like Extreme content and all to keep the people with more time busy as well. I'm not sure what you're calling "dumbed down" but I do know they try to keep things balanced. Hardest tier stays hard for everyone but once it's no longer most difficult content or they are about to release next phase of stuff, they sometimes make it simpler so newer people can get geared and ready. They don't want people stuck trying to gear up for months just to get into new content. They want to make sure we ALL can find groups and advance, not get stuck lagging behind others with nobody to help.

[Avidria]

It was aimed at anyone who has rolled on a PvP server but then complains when PvP happens. You are not the only one that has expressed such views in this thread, nor are you the only one that has brought up various reasons as to why one may roll on a PVP server. I get that some may play on PvP servers not because they like PvP but they want to play with friends or have a community that is already established on the server.

That said PvP server PvP is optional because one has to make the choice to roll on said server so any act of PvP. I get we will not get PvP servers in FFXIV, but your mindset is not that uncommon when it comes to PvP servers, which by in large makes no sense to me. End of the day one has to make the choice to roll on a PvP server.

Either way it was not solely aimed at you. LUL I mean most my time on WoW classic was spent listening to people in chat, discord, stream etc . . . Complaining about PvP on a pvp server. Getting camped, barred from raids, not being able to farm etc . . .

Yeah that's fair lol. Honestly I didn't even really complain much at the time. There were even times it was fun, when there were actually genuine fights happening. This was also during Legion and I was a dps DH so I had some pretty funny matchups... and some of the wild legendary effects were pretty funny too. Watched a guy straight kill himself attacking an AFK paladin once (I think it was a PLD at least, had some crazy passive reflect) and it was hysterical. It's totally one sided fights and the inability to shut it off that I wasn't a huge fan of.

Anyway yeah. If it's optional content, and I can choose to play on a not pvp server, I wouldn't really... care. I'd rather they improve the pvp we already have personally, but I also get some people like it as it is and I honestly don't even know what or how they could change it to make it feel less... un fun for me. Specifically the combat itself. I don't know how to put it into words really but it just feels horribly unsatisfying. Oh well.

[NW3]

I mean, SE doesn't have to follow everything that Blizzard does. WoW has it's own PvP, which get more focus, and that's fine. FFXIV has it's own PvP, a side content which doesn't get a lot of focus, and that's fine too. SE just happen to focus on other contents in FFXIV.

Remember that we'll get new PvP contents next expansion. Let's just wait and see how it goes. I'm actually curious since they said it's a small scale one, and I would be glad to see another small scale PvP outside of Feast (and hopefully more to do than simply trying to kill each other).

I don’t know why it’s fine? Dude, open your eyes. They gave you one less Frontline gear set reward last expansion. That is fine? You talk casual PvP, but you're paying to log on to this game to PvP. Unlike real casual PvP games like LoL or Valorant that are free to play, is it not somewhat an obligation to get an AAA MMORPG PvP experience? I only said WoW because it's their only competitor atm with the exception of Ashes of Creation, also subscription-based, but it's not even AAA. I think it's unfair that you argue to reduce further the already reduced AAA PvP experience FFXIV once offered. On top of this, everyone says PvP is an afterthought (that's my word, you should read what they're really saying). If you are on Twitch, hear what people say about FFXIV PvP. I don’t think you’re being fair and honest with yourself here. Personally, I think they’re refining some things but they’ve taken away the progression, not listening to the community’s pleas regarding cheating, they took away from players that enjoyed every facet their game had to offer.

I must reiterate that if you hear what people say about FFXIV PvP and are honest with yourself and fair to me, an equally paying customer, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. I’m not asking them to take anything away from PvE. That's the main ride. That wouldn’t be right.

They aren’t a small team, and I’m confident they can give PvP a little more attention.

[NW3]

Look, just because you create an account on a pvp server and want to do it doesn't mean you want to deal with griefing and everything. PvP server means while questing and you see someone you can kill of equal or near equal level, you may end up fighting each other. Or you may end up getting together with friends to go raid a major town. Things like that. But for a lv 80 to go kill lv 10s and camp them, continuously camping just to grief/troll...that's not what a pvp server is about. I mean, I'd be okay with them going and killing someone time or two when they see them, I mean, it's your enemy and why not? But there's always a limit and general idea of respect in these games. People who lose track of that respect for players and forget it's a game, that people need to level and do stuff too...they shouldn't be on these types of platforms. Just my thoughts anyway. I don't get why people want to be complete jerks and then say "you're on a pvp server, that means I can grief you all I want! Go cry to your mama!" or similar stuff...

So devs are taking penalty away from deaths now. They make PvP more and more forgiving. You die in Dark Souls. You die in League of Legends. You die in Call of Duty. You die in CS and Valorant.

Please don’t tell me it’s only the FFXIV community that’s that soft. You’re now telling me on a PvP server it’s wrong to be assassinated, for example, because that’s what say, a Ninja in FFXIV would do? It’s wrong for a BLM to nuke you from afar while you’re exploring the open world on a PvP server? Now it’s coming to this?

I don't even care for PvP servers or Open World PvP, just a little more attention in the PvP department, but you guys are asking them to keep ignoring some of the existing problems it has. Is that a problem for you?

Man.

E: Do me a favor, go on Twitch and ask about FFXIV PvP. I'm not going to just sit here and keep hearing the things I hear about it. I'm not trying to kill PvE either - the main attraction.

[Awha]

Look, just because you create an account on a pvp server and want to do it doesn't mean you want to deal with griefing and everything. PvP server means while questing and you see someone you can kill of equal or near equal level, you may end up fighting each other. Or you may end up getting together with friends to go raid a major town. Things like that. But for a lv 80 to go kill lv 10s and camp them, continuously camping just to grief/troll...that's not what a pvp server is about. I mean, I'd be okay with them going and killing someone time or two when they see them, I mean, it's your enemy and why not? But there's always a limit and general idea of respect in these games. People who lose track of that respect for players and forget it's a game, that people need to level and do stuff too...they shouldn't be on these types of platforms. Just my thoughts anyway. I don't get why people want to be complete jerks and then say "you're on a pvp server, that means I can grief you all I want! Go cry to your mama!" or similar stuff...

In practice that is kinda how it goes. You made the choice to roll on a pvp server and that is the nature of a PvP server.

Guess you for me it boils down to people know people can be jerks or trolls yet still make the choice to roll on a PvP server then complain or act like they did not expect things to play out that way. Many will disagree but WPvP is not meant to be fair and sure getting ganked by higher levels is not fun for the one getting ganked ( main reason why I always have a friend near by or my main parked in the zone ) by that is just the nature of PvP servers. It just strikes me as odd how some seem to think PvP servers and WPvP means the encounters are meant to be fair.

Not 100% sure where people got that idea from. PvP servers at least from my experience were always just chaos. If we wanted fair or structured encounters we would use arena or other structured forms of PvP.

[Bright-Flower]

I feel like design wise it just wouldn't work in FFXIV. Not with the way pvp is now anyway. World pvp doesn't need be balanced. It is, inherently, unfair. But with them splitting off pvp ENTIRELY into isolated zones, to the point where your abilities and stats are all different etc in pvp, it wouldn't meld seamlessly. It's one thing in WoW where you have some extra pvp talents but that's about it. In FFXIV you would have entirely different hotbars and skills. And because of the hard pve/pvp split in ffxiv, no effort is put into balancing theoretical pve skillsets against eachother. Because all of the pvp balancing is focused on the pvp templates. In WoW pvp isn't balanced around 1v1, but the pvp balance isn't so inherently divorced from pve because there isn't that hard line binary separation there.

They would have to put in a massive amount of effort into making the pve skill sets function in a pvp environment before it would even be feasible to allow outdoor pvp in FFXIV. And while this is partly FFXIV's fault for having had lackluster pvp in general, I don't think the game really has the pvp audience to justify that effort.

A pvp sandbox zone could be fun. Like say, a Bozja/Eureka type instance where you queue in and run around and fight eachother with the pvp skillsets in place could be fun. One where not a lot of dev time was invested, but more a fun place to run around and fight. But I don't think it's worth their dev time to work open world pvp into the actual world zones, even if they added separate pvp servers for it.

[Eldevern]

Somehow, I have the feeling some people here forget that FFXIV has never pretended to be PVP oriented. You... subscribe without taking any information about the game, how it works and the content? Since the bêta we know it is not Open World PVP. Since the beta we know that PVP is only a side content.

We can dislike the balance between jobs, the maps but... to complain... to not getting what you are paying for when EVERYTHING you need to know is on the Lodestone? That's kinda...

[NW3]

Somehow, I have the feel some people here forget that FFXIV has never pretended to be PVP oriented. You... subscribe without taking any information about the game, how it works and the content? Since the bêta we know it is not Open World PVP. Since the beta we know that PVP is only a side content.

We can dislike the balance between jobs, the maps but... to complain... to not getting what you are paying for when EVERYTHING you need to know is on the Lodestone? That's kinda...

That is simply not true. The game does not advertise itself in regards to PvP being only side content. Yoshi-P himself is a DAoC player. He was inspired by WoW. But for PvP, we get Guild Wars 2? That's buy to play. This is a subsciption-based AAA MMORPG. It's a behemoth; it's the ultimate theme park. It's a big deal.

I ask you to look at the PvP shop in Wolve's Den. Look at ARR - look how many gear sets there. They even have stats. They were definitely aiming at offering an AAA MMO PvP experience.

Why did it change? What happened? Frontline queues are 5 min or less. It's active. Reward these players, please, some of which don't have the time to invest great lengths in PvE. Because with PvP you can just queue right away. With PvE, there's more to it. Both once offered progression. Why did that change?

And if we are completely honest with ourselves here, is that fair to all, equally paying customers?

[Eldevern]

That is simply not true. The game does not advertise itself in regards to PvP being only side content.

You're kiding, right?

Since the beta interviews from Yoshida show PVP is not planned to be the main focus of the game. He said he understand some player like PVP BUT he also explained "hardcore" PVP is a niche content that is not in his focus. (He would not talk about "casual" PVP otherwise in one of his last interviews).

Everything in the Lodestone about PVP explains it is in arenas. The Fest is clearly focused on arena challenge. Nowhere, never, anything could let imagine the game could be Open World PVP oriented.

He know how PVP in Open World ends. He has explained why he was not plans to go in this direction.

Whatch the Lodestone : PVP is ARENAS. Not more, Not less.

The main focus is clearly understandable as PVE story mode oriented. Since the beginning. If COIL was fairly integrated to the story, the Frontline has kind of a weird excuse to justify PVP.

[NW3]

You're kiding, right?

Since the beta interviews from Yoshida show PVP is not planned to be the main focus of the game. He said he understand some player like PVP BUT he also explained "hardcore" PVP is a niche content that is not in his focus. (He would not talk about "casual" PVP otherwise in one of his last interviews).

Everything in the Lodestone about PVP explains it is in arenas. The Fest is clearly focused on arena challenge. Nowhere, never, anything could let imagine the game could be Open World PVP oriented.

He know how PVP in Open World ends. He has explained why he was not plans to go in this direction.

Whatch the Lodestone : PVP is ARENAS. Not more, Not less.

The main focus is clearly understandable as PVE story mode oriented. Since the beginning. If COIL was fairly integrated to the story, the Frontline has kind of a weird excuse to justify PVP.

Yet, whether we like it or not, we need to both admit they have reduced the amount of gear rewards from Frontlines and they offered PvP progression (which has been cut), and look, if you can't even admit that than there's no credibility in your arguments. I think you''re talking to the wrong guy, I am not the OP, who is asking for open world PvP.