Open World PvP

[NW3]

Just for those who don't know how open world PvP currently works in WoW, there is no such thing as a PvP server anymore since two expansions already and there is a PvP mode called War Mode for all servers instead.
Players with PvP mode turned on are phased in their own world, they can only see those with the PvP mode turned on so those with the PvP mode turned off are unable to see and interact with those with PvP mode on.
There is also a few incentives to having the PvP mode enabled.
What it gives when enabled:

• Access to all PvP talents (PvP skills and abilities) in the outdoor world, regardless of being engaged in PvP combat or not.
• +10% experience boost while leveling.
• +10% World Quest (they're like FATE) reward bonuses at max level.
• Ability to earn Conquest Points (PvP experience), which count towards a weekly progress bar for special gear rewards.
• Completion of PvP achievements.

Turning the PvP mode on would require one to be in the main city (like Ul'dah, Limsa Lominsa and Gridania) and turning it off can be done anywhere provided one is out of combat.

Many players play with PvP mode turned off and enjoy the game just fine.

This is how New World does it too and it's fun as hell. Everybody wins. And you know what? Let's say you're curious about PvP just once. You can turn it on too. You might even win your fight.

Don't even need PvP worlds just the ability to flag it like WoW and New World. I kept mine on at times when exploring because who cares if you die. Today dying from PvP has no penalty - unlike the past. You die a lot in every video game you play. Get over it.

[ElciaDeiLinus]

Just for those who don't know how open world PvP currently works in WoW, there is no such thing as a PvP server anymore since two expansions already and there is a PvP mode called War Mode for all servers instead.

I will say a few things about warmode.

1- It's basically dead, since Alliance don't use it because of how vastly outnumbered they are (just check out the war mode forum- it's basically Horde guilds trying to brag about their exploits in an echo chamber that the other side left five years ago)

2- It would require SE to implement phasing as well as some sort of cross realm world (or you wouldn't get wpvp at all if every single world had their own warmode version)- either way, you'd need to put in a new technology just for it, or, double the amount of servers for something that likely would see minimal use... clearly a massive undertaking either way

3- It absolutely did nothing to eliminate complaints about wpvp or the toxicity. At first it was full of Alliance complaining that they were camped everywhere, then Horde complaining that Alliance had too many incentives for being the smaller faction, then Alliance complaining because they were always so outnumbered they couldn't do anything while Horde basically got a permanent 10% buff. Then more complaints about Maw wpvp despite it being a feature you could turn off- and Blizz had to make changes to the Maw specifically for people who were complaining about being killed while using a feature they could turn off at any point. No matter how optional you make wpvp, it still ends up being a massive headache for everyone.

4- I feel like the incentives only made people who don't want to wpvp do it, which only led to a lot of the problems it has had.

[SturmChurro]

No matter how it is spun. Adding a whole separate server (like was implied years ago) does not negatively affect anybody in any way.

"But I'd be forced to play on a PvP server, just so I can have a house!"

[ElciaDeiLinus]

Imagine this. SE wants to add more housing. Is there a non toxic way to argue against that? No. Any way you spin it, it comes down to "I don't want others to have more houses".
Some people might argue with the famous (which has already been used here) "But SEs resources". Theyre not taking away anything from you by adding it. The "they could add XX instead" Is something made up by someone it's not real. If someone says "It's bad for SE or it's SEs resources" it's made up. They are not SE they don't have documentation of their business model and they aren't their business counsellor. It's a valid opinion sure but without value.

No matter how it is spun. Adding a whole separate server (like was implied years ago) does not negatively affect anybody in any way.

Except housing is already a feature in the game so it doesn't need to be developed, and housing is also a feature with proven, massive interest, so much so that not everyone can get houses.

Let's look at pvp- there is pvp in the game already, but it's not in a great state and it's not overly popular. There's already a place for duelling and settling personal differences in an opt in manner, if you need that 'wpvp' itch scratched... and it's empty basically all the time on almost every realm.

If the duelling arena was constantly so full of players that want to duel it was causing problems, then there could be a comparison made.

That said- I want more housing available (I actually already have my house- but I'd want it for other people)- but if you said 'I do not think SE should add more housing, because...' and brought up a reason in a constructive way... no, I wouldn't consider that toxic. I'd disagree with you, maybe I wouldn't understand how you could think that- but consider you toxic for having an opinion I don't like? Of course not, that's kind of absurd.

[ElciaDeiLinus]

Which is why people are bringing up their concerns about wpvp being implemented- instead of simply saying 'you disagree with wpvp therefore you are toxic' to avoid having to address the issues- why not take those concerns seriously and provide counter arguments?

I've seen plenty of valid reasons to bring in wpvp, and plenty of valid reasons to not do so in this thread, I wouldn't consider any of that to be toxic. Ultimately, labelling people with opinions you don't agree with toxic is just attacking the person rather than the argument- you're spending your time trying to dissuade people from having opinions and sharing them, instead of trying to persuade people of the validity of your own opinion.

I don't think anyone here can know for sure how many resources it would take SE to do this, how widely it would get utilized and if it would be enough to warrant those resources, how toxic the wpvp community would be here, what sort of problems it might cause for those who don't want to be involved, or if it'd be more valuable to spend their pvp resources on addressing issues in current pvp or adding new pvp features/content aside from wpvp.

But people can have opinions, and I do think some of those opinions are valid, logical and are being ignored instead of addressed because they are valid, and thus hard to address and easier to label 'toxic'. Having a discussion with both sides saying what they think of it is a good thing, in my opinion.

I'm not going to say my thoughts on why they should or shouldn't add wpvp- and I do have some on both sides of this discussion- are all correct, but I do believe they are grounded in reason, have history to back them up, would probably need to be addressed to make wpvp work if it were put in, and I don't think they're toxic at all.

[Jojoya]

2- It would require SE to implement phasing as well as some sort of cross realm world (or you wouldn't get wpvp at all if every single world had their own warmode version)- either way, you'd need to put in a new technology just for it, or, double the amount of servers for something that likely would see minimal use... clearly a massive undertaking either way.

We get three instances of zones at times every expansion now. At the start of Shadowbringers, it was every new zone (including Crystarium and Eulmore) plus Mor Dhona. Later patches we saw it limited to a smaller number of zones. Right now, the Rising Stones is the only zone running multiple instances (probably because of the massive wall of 5.55 cutscenes that occur when our character is there).

I doubt it would need any major new technology, just a way to make one of those instances (and any player who enters it) marked for PvP. Teleport to a zone and you automatically get placed in one of the non-PvP instances. Use the Aetheryte to select Instance PvP instead of Instance 1, Instance 2 or Instance 3.

But I also doubt it would work using instances on all worlds like that. The population that would actively participate in world PvP would be too diluted. There would need to be PvP designated worlds so those players could find each other. And if world visit between non-PvP and PvP worlds was allowed, the population would be diluted even further as those who want to be doing things other than world PvP would simply hop over to another world. The only ones left would be the ones who want to PvP.

At that point, what's the real difference between open world PvP and instanced PvP? You've got a FFA/brawl mode with no one doing anything else. Might as well just make it a separate zone with terrain that can be used for tactical purposes and allows players to enter and leave at will (somewhat like Diadem, Eureka, BSF and Zadnor).

[ElciaDeiLinus]

But I also doubt it would work using instances on all worlds like that. The population that would actively participate in world PvP would be too diluted. There would need to be PvP designated worlds so those players could find each other. And if world visit between non-PvP and PvP worlds was allowed, the population would be diluted even further as those who want to be doing things other than world PvP would simply hop over to another world. The only ones left would be the ones who want to PvP.

At that point, what's the real difference between open world PvP and instanced PvP? You've got a FFA/brawl mode with no one doing anything else. Might as well just make it a separate zone with terrain that can be used for tactical purposes and allows players to enter and leave at will (somewhat like Diadem, Eureka, BSF and Zadnor).

I think it may need some tweaking if they wanted to wpvp zones to have pvp abilities/gear/levels for balance- though that feels like that runs contrary to wpvp, which generally differs from instanced pvp in that it doesn't have balance.

I think the point about every server having their own wpvp zone is a pretty valid one- which is why I bring up the concern about it being something with minimal interest. If not many people use it, it ends up being wasted effort from SE. But, if not many people use it- it also ends up not being a good wpvp experience for those who want it, because they'll never see anyone to pvp with. That's one of the big issues with warmode in WoW- it's all Horde everywhere, Alliance don't do it because they just get ganged up on, Horde who want wpvp though don't actually get any.

Of course- in this game would it be FFA pvp, or would it be red v yellow v brown?

If they put in wpvp, and wanted it to have engagement- I think it'd have to be a single realm people could visit, or something like in ESO/GW2 where it's basically a massive, persistent instanced pvp zone.

[Eldevern]

One of the very reason why Open World PVP will not work is demonstrated by PVP MMO vs Fortnite.

In Open World PVP MMO population is diluted between servers and there are people who will want to to the PVE quests when some other players will have PVP as purpose. In Fortnite : all player are here for PVP AND a limited time.

If PVP areas in FFXIV could propably be more interesting, they are not that bad since it is PVP purpose only for a limited time too. When people don't have the same purpose in the same time it doesn't work, it brings toxicity, dramas etc.

Of course, you can make PVP opt-in only or dedicated servers but... then people complain there is not enough PVP.

[EriShvakh]

Let's forget for a second that XIV playerbase is massively PvE centric, and how open PVP goes against the very lore of the game and let's imagine for a second what's going to happen on pvp realms.

What reasons are there to go outside of cities?

MSQ - do you really, actually, seriously, unironically want to be ganked by a random NIN over and over and over and over while you're stuck in "wait" animation during MSQ? Or on a way to next NPC? Good luck.

Fates - depending on how important they are people are either going to do them in big groups without engaging in PvP, or kill people on sight because killing lvl 80 synced to lvl 50 is fun and easy.

Hunts - Early on in the game two or three big FC's will farm them while killing everyone else on sight. Later on hunt trains will resume.

Gathering - Every timed high level resource will be camped by massive FC's. And if you're not part of them, you will be killed. Since owning high level materials means owning the market, those spawns will be either highly contested between big FC's or shared if they are allied to each other.

Since this game doesn't have farming spots, big open world bosses, or some kind of territory control, fight for resources and random ganking will be the only reason to open world PvP. I have no idea why anyone would want that.

[Kes13a]

well, for anyone that is concerned, I do not see any wpvp for 6.0 unless they seriously about face. last on it from an interview with Yoshi-P is from Feb of this year and there was zero mention of wpvp at fanfest. so, think we can think about wpvp in FFxiv, as a dead horse for the moment and Awa Awa can blame everyone else for our toxic antagonism stopping it from happening (and likely some good old in game SE stats). while its taken from a livestream with Yoshi-P, and I hardly would call that definitive, software creation wise, we are past the point of adding things in and likely in testing systems

Have a great day ^^

:

New PvP

Endwalker and 6.0 will come with a new PvP mode that’s smaller in scale than what’s currently in the game. The intention here is to make PvP content that feels “more casual and more immersive by removing role restrictions.” Another part of the idea is to make matching easier than before.

This new PvP content won’t just be for the hardcore. There’ll be a new type of reward system that doesn’t focus solely on gear, but will also have a new category of reward, in the hopes of opening it up to a lot of new players.