Open World PvP

[GrimGale]

Another thing:

If you design an opt-in PVP system and then encourage players to participate by giving gear, Tomestones or Gil, you're essentially making this system mandatory since anybody not participating is essentially falling behind people who do. If the rewards for participating in the PVP system extend beyond itself they become indispensable for PVE progression system and therefore you'd be forcing players to participate.

BFA as an example.

[Anhra]

Another thing:

If you design an opt-in PVP system and then encourage players to participate by giving gear, Tomestones or Gil, you're essentially making this system mandatory since anybody not participating is essentially falling behind people who do. If the rewards for participating in the PVP system extend beyond itself they become indispensable for PVE progression system and therefore you'd be forcing players to participate.

BFA as an example.

It depends on the Setting. There are a bunch of MMOs out there which have PvP and PvE elements mixed together well enough ( Tera Online is a good example on this, at least before Reaper got released there, cant say how the game turned out ever since) that Player who roam arround with PK mode on, could be more or less just considered as "elite type enemies".

Yet another way of fixing the Ganking issue is by doing something similar which Tera Online did: You can only PK Players within a certain level range (for example, a lv70 character could assault only Lv60-Lv80 Characters). That way, even if PvP would be forced on you, all you need to do is change your Job to a low level character and noone can harm you, unless said PKer also has something within that level range.

[Theodric]

I'm disinclined to think that rewards equal something being mandatory. If someone really doesn't want to indulge in PvP, the presence of rewards does not suddenly make it 'mandatory'. Much in the same way as how despite enjoying collecting things, I haven't bothered with Ultimate as I have neither the time, patience or skill to tackle that particular bit of content.

[Fland]

I'm disinclined to think that rewards equal something being mandatory. If someone really doesn't want to indulge in PvP, the presence of rewards does not suddenly make it 'mandatory'. Much in the same way as how despite enjoying collecting things, I haven't bothered with Ultimate as I have neither the time, patience or skill to tackle that particular bit of content.

Depends on the rewards and the requirements. During Garo events, a lot of players who never/rarely/hate playing PVP felt compelled to do it for the limited time rewards. And with not a lot of efforts since you can just spam FL/training, unlike the feast which also has limited rewards but has harder requirement.

[Artemiz]

One thing I will say is I've played FF MMO's for over 15 years now, been active on the forums, watched the YouTube stuff, and been in every kind of LS and FC there is from the classic Noob clubs to Merc linkshells selling drops from the hardest content in the game. In all that time I have never seen any great desire for PvP. It just doesn't seem very popular in this franchise. As of yet other than "I would like it" nobody has presented a scrap of evidence that PvP is worth a lot of investment from the developers and what we have in the game, nobody really bothers with. "that's because it's not very good, if it was loads of people would do it" is an argument with a hard sell if it has no evidence to back it up.

I don't buy the toggle option, I think, and it has proven in many other games, that it isn't a perfect solution and we still get griefing against people who don't want to PvP. We need the developers to make a very robust system, which would take time, experience, money and probably a dose of luck.

The PvP server is a non starter for me to be honest, in the perfect world where everyone gets what they want then sure, you could have an ERP bang bro's server for all I care in the perfect world. The world isn't perfect though and as there are far more people who seem to want housing than seem to want PvP I would much rather those physical server resources be put into solving the housing problem, it would please more players that way.

The truth is PvP is niche in this game and always has been, improve that system by all means, but don't spend the company pot on something very few people are even asking for. Also, the comparison with difficult PvE content, which very few people clear. Final Fantasy, as a franchise has always had extremely tough fights for those that want it. In FFXI Absolute Virtue wasn't even supposed to be beatable for nearly 10 years, and every time some group managed it they patched it so they couldn't do that tactic again. Then we had the famous 18 hour Pandemonium Warden fight, tough fights are an FF staple.

[linayar]

I don't buy the toggle option, I think, and it has proven in many other games, that it isn't a perfect solution and we still get griefing against people who don't want to PvP.

I've addressed this in an earlier post, but FFXIV is a good fit for a "toggle option" because it doesn't have actual player factions that hate each other. PvP is presented as friendly competitions between the grand companies (at least in the Frontlines). But outside of PvP, an Adder player can walk into Maelstrom HQ with no fear of being toggled involuntarily to PvP.

So the only players who should be in the mode would be those who do want to PvP.

[Artemiz]

I've addressed this in an earlier post, but FFXIV is a good fit for a "toggle option" because it doesn't have actual player factions that hate each other. PvP is presented as friendly competitions between the grand companies (at least in the Frontlines). But outside of PvP, an Adder player can walk into Maelstrom HQ with no fear of being toggled involuntarily to PvP.

So the only players who should be in the mode would be those who do want to PvP.

Players are very good at gaming the system or flat out glitching though, that's why I talked about how a toggle would have to be robust. There seem to be plenty of ways to "force" the toggle on in other games, such as being healed, using AoE on mobs etc...

[linayar]

Players are very good at gaming the system or flat out glitching though, that's why I talked about how a toggle would have to be robust. There seem to be plenty of ways to "force" the toggle on in other games, such as being healed, using AoE on mobs etc...

I think the way to do it in FFXIV is to create PvP zone instances. So there are less ways to glitch anything because PvP instances are separate from PvE instances.

[Artemiz]

I think the way to do it in FFXIV is to create PvP zone instances. So there are less ways to glitch anything because PvP instances are separate from PvE instances.

I would agree with that, improve what we have now and expand it a bit, as long as it doesn't effect those who don't want it which it won't unless SE decide to rebalance all the jobs to improve PvP.

[Jojoya]

I think the way to do it in FFXIV is to create PvP zone instances. So there are less ways to glitch anything because PvP instances are separate from PvE instances.

It won't work.

The interest in PvP in general for this game is pretty small. The population with an interest in world PvP is even smaller.

By just adding PvP zone instances, you've got that small population diluted across over 2500 different zones (68 worlds, 37 normal zones, I'm not including the cities in the count since PvP would likely be prohibited in those zones). Your chances of encountering another player in a PvP instance on your world would be extremely low.

To create those PvP opportunities, you've got to help the interested population get concentrated in the same place (or however many are needed to meet player interest). That means creating PvP specific worlds for those players to choose.

If a player on a PvP world logs in one day and decides they want to play but just are not in the mood for PvP, they could always use world visit/data center travel to spend the day on a PvE world.

If a player on a PvE world who normally avoids PvP gets in the mood for it, they can use world visit/data center travel to get a PvP world and encounter players who want to PvP.

All of this is just mental exercise because I highly doubt that SE would ever add world PvP. I've still got zero objections to them doing it if they're willing to provide it to the players who want it - as long as it's on separate worlds so only those who want world PvP would be affected by its presence.