Ivalice may not continue

[linayar]

the story isn’t black and white and everyones neither good nor bad in a sense.

That would be an ambitious story to tell since that "in a sense" part is a hard part to explain, especially when a player-created character is involved.

[KuroMaboroshi]

Most of the people who dislike it seem to be people who have no knowledge of the original, it's really rather impenetrable for a newcomer.

I suppose it did try though, did better than Nier at least, that one got around the issue of newcomers not having any idea what's happening by just not having any story worth caring about. Man, I just don't think I'll ever stop being salty about that raid.

Obviously I am committing an informal fallacy here, but while that may or may not be true across the board, I don't think Return to Ivalice (and as a result Save the Queen) had an inherent entry barrier for people not familiar with it. I have never touched FF Tactics or XII, and I had no problem following and enjoying the story. It was not a masterpiece (though I think between Return and Save the Queen the overall writing got much better), but it was no better or worse or more or less hard to grasp than previous Alliance Raids and exploration zones.

For me personally it came down to the integration with the world. I don't know which plot points are just copied from XII and Tactics, so I don't care that they are, and what I found in both pieces written by Matsuno was very enjoyable to someone like me who loves to dive into the lore of the world. There were no obvious "seams" where I would notice something was copied over in terms of writing, and the game did a decent job of catching me up on all the important information that is relevant for understanding Ivalice in XIV. So as far as this game is concerned, it felt sufficiently self-contained. (Concession though, I did read the Encyclopedia 2 which expanded upon Dalmasca before Save the Queen rolled around, so that might colour my perception of this second half of the story we got)

Which is why I find the unfavourable comparison with CT someone made earlier baffling. CT is merely more relevant to the events of the MSQ, as information about Allag has a much larger influence on the world overall. But Ivalice was no more or less fitting than, let's say Hingashi or Southern Ilsabard at this point, though all play relatively minor roles in the MSQ. But that's fine, it's a side quest and while tying CT so heavily into the main story in Shadowbringers worked out great (and I'm favour of them doing it again), things don't have to be to fit well. I guess it just feels that way to some people cause they don't have to pay attention as much, and if they then decide not to, Matsuno's writing style is pretty incompatible with that.

Also, amen on Dark Apocalypse being a disaster. The direct comparison with Matsuno's work in XIV just makes YoRHa look so much worse, not that it didn't look bad enough to begin with.

[KizuyaKatogami]

That would be an ambitious story to tell since that "in a sense" part is a hard part to explain, especially when a player-created character is involved.

Well it’s what they’ve done with both msq and the bozjan storyline. The devs empathize it’s all matters of perspective and isn’t black and white one way or another. Which is something people seem to forget or don’t know about when they outright classify characters as evil when SE says it’s not that simple.

[linayar]

Well it’s what they’ve done with both msq and the bozjan storyline. The devs empathize it’s all matters of perspective and isn’t black and white one way or another. Which is something people seem to forget or don’t know about when they outright classify characters as evil when SE says it’s not that simple.

And that "matters of perspective" is what I mean. You can't say that and then disagree when people have their own perspective.

[KizuyaKatogami]

And that "matters of perspective" is what I mean. You can't say that and then disagree when people have their own perspective.

My whole point was about people having a derogatory way of thinking or pushing their perspective onto others with illogical statements, or when they don’t agree with others’ perspectives, calling them various names that are actual real life issues and attributing them to a fantasy world. People are allowed to have their own perspectives. However, if that perspective ifs based on fallacies or misinformation then i will call it out. Especially given the devs statements on such matters on things.

[linayar]

My whole point was about people having a derogatory way of thinking or pushing their perspective onto others with illogical statements, or when they don’t agree with others’ perspectives, calling them various names that are actual real life issues and attributing them to a fantasy world. People are allowed to have their own perspectives. However, if that perspective ifs based on fallacies or misinformation then i will call it out. Especially given the devs statements on such matters on things.

Well, I do think that people should try to be civil when communicating with other people regardless of the topic.

In terms of attributing real life issues to a fantasy world, that's what can happen when the story tries to present an ambiguity. A fantasy world can be simply be a clear black and white in perspective, though I'd say the same is true in real life for certain things.

[Caurcas]

Kind of a bummer, as the recent Queen arc had a villain that got me to hate (although they fumbled the landing). Plus, mechanically thr Ivalice raids are second only to Weeping City and Dun Scaith.

[Rinhi]

I love the ivalice raids for the amazing voice acting, that alone elevates them above the other alliance raids for me

[MiaShino]

I’ve found in my personal experiences a large group of this community will literally crucify you if you find garleans or ascians appealing or share some of their views. They’ll call you multiple irl terms that don’t even fit with the games story(n word sympathizer, genocide sympathizer etc etc.) It really gets in the way of theory crafting and lore curiosity because these people just seem to gate keep despite the devs themselves saying the story isn’t black and white and everyones neither good nor bad in a sense.

But.. but but, I also like the Ascians and so do many friends and family! I felt kinda bad for Emet towards the end of Shadowbringers, he lost everything he held dear to a mistake his people made. I adored the ancients too! Uh oh. Perhaps I am just a strange one, I suppose.

Speaking of strange, I have finally begun the Save the Queen stuffs and the intro was fricken amazing! If this is same writer for whole thing I will happily admit I am wrong about him. Was he trolling or something?! "Many cutscenes will play" you mean a whole bunch of neat things will happen with boss fights and fun because that it was happened. There was telling but also showing and we even got to fight! More of this please.

[RyuDragnier]

Aye, I'd love a proper Ivalice MMO.

Same! Give me a playable bangaa!