Healers Angry when PLD Clemencies

[kaynide]

Spending a Holy Spirit to get a Glare is not always good value--especially in cases where the cost to the healer is to use Afflatus instead. So you're trading 500+ tank potency for 75 healer potency. Does that actually seem like value to you?

The Paladin self-healing costs damage, so you can't just look at it from the 'healer can spam damage' more angle, you have to include that cost.

This is why Paladin self-healing isn't the same as Warrior self-healing, which does not cost damage, and is therefore all upside.

My point was outside of endgame raids etc, that level of min-maxing is irrelevant as long as the Pld isn’t spamming. I view it the same way as healer adding dps: As long as they are doing anything to add to the dps pile, fine by me.
A difference of 10 minutes in a dungeon or whatever is a thing and in that case, sure..rotations need to be checked (probably more on the dps members...)

..., but doing fairly well but not optimal will at worst delay by a minute or two. Not that big a deal that it merits some kind of “zomg don’t use clemency”.

[Gruntler]

My point was outside of endgame raids etc, that level of min-maxing is irrelevant as long as the Pld isn’t spamming.

That's not 'that level of min-maxing.'

It's recognizing that a Holy Spirit is worth more than a Glare.

Honestly, an attitude that some people have in this community is that any level of play beyond 'I queued up' is 'advanced level min-maxing' and that's just not true. Recognizing that a number is higher than another number is a basic part of playing this game, and you're expected to recognize it.

And bear in mind the context--it's when someone is claiming that using Holy Clemency is to free up healer dps--we're already at that context of min-maxing so suddenly going 'harumph well, we don't need to do that level of min-maxing' as a retort is just bad argumentation. If you have 'freeing up healer dps' in mind, then you're in a raid dps mindset and if you're in a raid dps mindset, Holy Spirit > Glare. It's a well meaning idea that doesn't work out.

[kaynide]

That's not 'that level of min-maxing.'

It's recognizing that a Holy Spirit is worth more than a Glare.

Honestly, an attitude that some people have in this community is that any level of play beyond 'I queued up' is 'advanced level min-maxing' and that's just not true. Recognizing that a number is higher than another number is a basic part of playing this game, and you're expected to recognize it.

And bear in mind the context--it's when someone is claiming that using Holy Clemency is to free up healer dps--we're already at that context of min-maxing so suddenly going 'harumph well, we don't need to do that level of min-maxing' as a retort is just bad argumentation. If you have 'freeing up healer dps' in mind, then you're in a raid dps mindset and if you're in a raid dps mindset, Holy Spirit > Glare. It's a well meaning idea that doesn't work out.

The OP topic is about healers getting angry when a PLD uses Clemency. My entire post line has been clearly towards non-end-game use of Clemency, where I have said it just doesn't really matter that X is better than Y when we're not going to be in the instance more than like, 25 minutes. And we're 99% guaranteed to clear it.

Could the PLD put out more DPS doing Holy Spirit? Sure. Not my point. I was simply saying should the PLD decide they want to use Clemency (which I think is fine) the healer has the option of just doing more DPS, or... not?

The content of most of the game just doesn't demand a player be at that level, so it's a disservice to "teach" a new player that they should never use Clemency, or that they should even need to worry about thinking that deeply about it.

I'm of the mind that I see someone interested in playing a Tank, and I want to encourage that without making them feel like they have to do 3D chess about what they should or shouldn't do in casual play. More tanks = faster queues for everyone.

I have nothing to add to endgame raids as I don't do them and you could be entirely right there, but that's not the part of the game I'm talking about.