Blue mage shouldnt be "Limited"

[Brightshadow]

I know that it’s beating a dead horse by asking SE to make BLU a normal job, but SE should really consider adding some type of duty spell set for BLU. As we have seen Square has had trouble with managing the stuff they have already added into the game such as Viera and Hrothgar headgear and Ultimate trials. It’s not realistic to work on BLU as a side project it extra work for the developers since they would have to create unique BLU only experiences.

If BLU remains as is we probably won’t see new content for it for at least 2-3 years…

At least as a regular functioning job it would have content every 4 months, and it could get new spells every expansion cycle.

[Ultimatecalibur]

I know that it’s beating a dead horse by asking SE to make BLU a normal job, but SE should really consider adding some type of duty spell set for BLU. As we have seen Square has had trouble with managing the stuff they have already added into the game such as Viera and Hrothgar headgear and Ultimate trials. It’s not realistic to work on BLU as a side project it extra work for the developers since they would have to create unique BLU only experiences.

Viera and Hrothgar headgear and hairstyles are a completely different situation unrelated to limited jobs. The Viera/Hrothgar situation is related to character modeling and maintaining option parity between the two races. Hrothgar are likely the reason Viera have not gotten any new hairstyles. It takes a lot more work to give Hrothgar new hairstyles.

Ultimates are limited more by the number of battle system planners who are actually skilled enough to design the fights and the massive amount of time needed to tune those fights. BLU and other Limited Job exclusive content requires a lot less skill and work to design and tune. BLU isn't getting in the way of the Ultimates; the Ultimates get in they way of designing every other type of battle content.

If BLU remains as is we probably won’t see new content for it for at least 2-3 years…

At least as a regular functioning job it would have content every 4 months, and it could get new spells every expansion cycle.

It does get new content every expansion cycle. It might not get stuff every patch but BLU got 2 updates during 5.X. Even if it does only get 1 update during 6.X that should be fine as long as another limited job such as BST is introduced to complement things.

[Garten]

I Just wanted to point out an "impossibile" idea, but you know.. dreaming Is free..
What if BLU remain as It Is, but if you find all of its spells you unlock a new Quest that unlocks 3 new Jobs (with 3 differents crystals)
TLU (Tank blu) DLU (dps blu) and HLU (healer blu).
So.. you keep the limited job as It Is, with all its jimmicks, and you create 3 new REAL Jobs that use Blu skills as base (not all of them of course).
So for example pom cure Will become the standard gcd heal of Hlu, diamond back the invuln of Tlu, excetera.
The LITTLE problem Is that 3 new Jobs would Need to be designed almost from scratch.
Also something Need to be done about the lore and when new contents, spells and levels Will be added.. but you know.. i'll do It in my spare time if se allows me lol..

[Garten]

Just out of my head.. Azuro could point out 3 disciples that specialize in the 3 Roles, while he remains "a Jack of all trades"

[ty_taurus]

First and foremost, I agree that I think BLU should not be a limited job forever. I would like to see it increased to level 80 around 6.1 and hopefully catch it up to 90 at around 6.4-6.5 and while reaching that level, it can be unlocked as a playable job in all content.

However

It cannot exist the way it currently does as a contestable job with other caster DPS. The Bluemage Spellbook is filled with repetition, extremely niche tools, and outright ludicrous abilities that do not fit into the way content is designed from a fundamental level. I see players frequently saying 'Why does that matter? Who cares?' Imagine if Tekken decided to add a character like Link from The Legend of Zelda, but he played as he does in Smash Bros but in Tekken. It wouldn't work, and similarly, the BLU that we have does not fit in any capacity with the game's core design elements. That's why it's a glorified minigame right now--because it breaks the mold on traditional gameplay that FFXIV has. This means it will either be aggressively OP and kick other DPS out of the meta or it will be too useless that anyone who tries to play BLU in party content will be chastised and kicked out.

One of the benefits to FFXIV's design is that no job has ever truly been 'unviable.' Sure there have been patches where some party creators wanted specific jobs, but that was always a fairly mild form of elitism that didn't realistically reflect the way the majority of content was experienced. Fully unlocking BLU as it exists now would drastically break that approach. It MUST be adjusted to accommodate the way the game is actually played.

Fortunately, the hardest and most expensive part about game design is animation, and with a wide library of spells to select from, a huge chunk of the work is already complete. What needs to happen is the developers would need to select a range of spells to essentially rebuild to create a new caster out of the BLU we currently have. We could paint this in game as a quest to "Refine Blue Magic Spells" where you gather resources to unlock refined versions of existing spells, and once all of them are refined, you now can switch between limited mode and unlimited mode, where unlimited mode has a preset build like any other job and can now be played with other players. The effects of these refined spells would also be streamlined to be consistent with other Caster DPS, though BLU should still have it's own playstyle of course.

We could also have a limited selection of slots where you actually can very slightly customized your BLU caster. For example, you can opt for Angel's Whisper to bring added revive utility or some form of added DPS to bring it more in line with BLM's power. The added damage would obviously be preferred, but teams could easily opt to bring Angel's Whisper instead while progging and swap it out later once they become familiar with the fight. We could also, in the future, work toward building a true-to-its-name Healer BLU and Tank BLU, though I imagine not all 3 would be released simultaneously.

[Raikai]

I Just wanted to point out an "impossibile" idea, but you know.. dreaming Is free..
What if BLU remain as It Is, but if you find all of its spells you unlock a new Quest that unlocks 3 new Jobs (with 3 differents crystals)
TLU (Tank blu) DLU (dps blu) and HLU (healer blu).
So.. you keep the limited job as It Is, with all its jimmicks, and you create 3 new REAL Jobs that use Blu skills as base (not all of them of course).
So for example pom cure Will become the standard gcd heal of Hlu, diamond back the invuln of Tlu, excetera.
The LITTLE problem Is that 3 new Jobs would Need to be designed almost from scratch.
Also something Need to be done about the lore and when new contents, spells and levels Will be added.. but you know.. i'll do It in my spare time if se allows me lol..

I think they'd rather spend the time/energy into making new jobs instead of designing 3 different flavors of BLU... :/

However, I think it can be done with what we have. 'take' on BLU turned regular DPS would be:


A new spell... let's call it "Blue Stance" for the lack of a better name.

1) It's sold via a new BLU NPC. To get it you must have a number of specific spells learned, the tools required to be a dpser. It cannot be used together with Mimicry;

2) When you use this spell, it replaces your Blue spellbook actionbar with an unique active set, filled with specific spells for the dpser role. You can't choose different spells while under this stance.

3) The stance also activates a job gauge. I always wondered that an Elemental Wheel inspired on Eureka's, that changed dynamically so you'd have to use specific spells, would be a nice touch.

4) This stance allows the player to queue as a DPS caster or get into current level instances with non-limited jobs.

There you go, just a single toggleable stance can put you into this 'very on-leashes dpser mode' like the others, while still keeping the alternative gameplay. It would use specific spells to the role, and since the spellbook in this case is not customizable, it can simply not contain certain 'broken' spells for regular content like White Wind.


But what about future updates with new expansions?

Come a new xpac, the vendor can have for example "Blue Stance II". A new totem acquired spell that fills your bars with slightly different spells introduced in the new expansion, this new Blue Stance II allows you to queue for the new xpac's content, that Blue Stance I wouldn't.

[Garten]

Ty_taurus and Raikai both made nice points. Blu could be both. A limited Jobs with its catch em all spells, arena and mini games. Then add some sort of mechanic that can be toogled to trasform It in a magical caster dps. While that mechanic Is Active It would be like a different job, but still using some of its spells acquired but with adjusted potencies and effects.
It would be a ff14 version of blu mage, like RDM Is a ff14 version of Red Mage.

[Raikai]

Ty_taurus and Raikai both made nice points. Blu could be both. A limited Jobs with its catch em all spells, arena and mini games. Then add some sort of mechanic that can be toogled to trasform It in a magical caster dps. While that mechanic Is Active It would be like a different job, but still using some of its spells acquired but with adjusted potencies and effects.
It would be a ff14 version of blu mage, like RDM Is a ff14 version of Red Mage.

Exactly... the whole idea is around the argument that BLU can't be a regular dpser due to the fact that its versatility would bring chaos and imbalance to the other jobs. Which kind of makes sense with the design they are trying to foster, when you look, everyone else's gameplay is pretty tight. Every RDM plays the same, and you're expected to play the same... There's no such thing as a BLM being an "Ice Mage".

Basically all we need is one spell that puts the job in a "stance mode" with a non-changeable list of spells (static spellbook setup), and this stance flags it as eligible for a certain range of content. With the terrible cheesy name I came up with:

Blue Stance I: Works for ARR-ShB
Blue Stance II: Works for EW
Blue Stance III: 7.0, et cetera

This idea also allows the developers to go for updated kit designs without relying on Traits.

The only compromise for this to work in a more organized way, however, would probably be an adjustment as in only letting "regular" Blue Mage builds go into content with either undersized parties or if you're working just with other Blue Mage groups, or solo. Else, you'd have to have one Blue Stance activated to flag yourself eligible.

And of course, the prospect of Full Blue groups tackling current content with custom builds can be an issue, so if you're in Endwalker, you would see the message "You need to be in Blue Stance II to undertake this duty", which would be lifted witht he following expansion... Which is basically like you experience the content now, of only being allowed to go one expansion prior. This is just a measure to also allow Blue Mage levels to be paired with the current content.

Edit: How about weapons? Althought it would be nice, since BLU starts at level 1, they don't really need to design weapons for old content, just make one of the canes scale up to a certain point like the Aetherythe earring does.

[MagiusNecros]

Stop trying to balance Blue Mage.

[BrokentoothMarch]

I'm not really sure what there is to debate here.

If a job is introduced as a "side thing", then that's stupid. An entire job class shouldn't be a mini-game. That's an insipid waste of resources. If you're going to implement something, do it correctly.

Stop trying to balance Blue Mage.

No. I think SE should be harassed to do their job correctly. Considering the buy-in and subscription model, they don't get the luxury of "Free game, don't complain." I expect competency. Not a lazy handwave. Tired enough of them butchering any class that isn't DPS, but now they can't even be bothered to fix something they broke? Please.