Blue mage shouldnt be "Limited"

[Koka-Kola]

Blue mage shouldn't be limited for several reasons but I will do my best to keep it small. First of all the basic concept of a blue mage is to learn other attacks.

(1)Now this is true but even so the attacks are weaker than the original, that is to be expected since blue magic is just imitating other attacks.

(2)The core mechanic of Blue Mage is learning different spells with different elemental effects and debuffs. Yes we all know bad breath is horrible to get hit with but again, it would be weaker than an actual morbol.

(3)IF the issue is that it has too many spells then let me ask: Isnt that what a blue mage is supposed to have? Why should the class be held back because of what it was meant for? You see, many people have said Ol' blue was too powerful. For example we have "Level 5 Death." A skill that has a decent chance to kill enemies around you aslong as their level is a multiple of 5. I mention this now because it has something to do with the next one. Blue mage is loved for its ability to learn and explore, but to truly explore you must remove restrictions on "Limited" classes.

(4) Ah yes, here we are. Blue mage has been dubbed over powered....but is that true? only partly. As I said, spells like "Level 5 Death" can instantly kill enemies whose level is a multiple of 5 BUT most enemies that I cant 1 shot with any other class are immune to its effects (Just like missle, ultravibraion ect.) so why make it one of the few things holding it back from being an actual job.

(5)Blue mage can learn many.....many spells yes we are aware but to add balance (As this class was claimed to be unbalanced) there should be a "Tier" system causing you to only use a limited amount of rare spells (Similar to XI's "Blue points")


I promised I would keep it short so I wont go any further but to do this to such a fine class in any final fantasy game is a disgrace to the job itself as if its only purpose is to clean up after the last expansion.

[LeonKeyh]

None of those are reasons why Blue Mage shouldn't be limited. You're misunderstanding why it's limited and with your misconception you're trying to argue against those reason.

They could easily group blue magic spells together into stuff like "Filler Damage Attack", "Self Buff", etc and have you pick which spell you want for that specific attack and leave the customization at that.

The whole reason the job has to be "limited" is for the exact opposite reason than the moniker suggests.

Keeping blue mage separate from the other classes opens up way more possibilities primarily. Players can customize the exact blue mage that they want to play from a myriad of different choices. They can live a power fantasy of soloing at-level dungeons, they can have fun.

Another problem looping them into normal classes is that there will be a "best spell setup" and people that don't bring that setup would be ostracized and potentially hold back groups that they're in, that's on top of the fact that you can't get some people to do job quests that it literally tells you about to get new job abilities. You can't expect an average blue mage player (if it were a normal job) to keep up with figuring out what blue magic they can get and from what mob. You would have expert roulette Blue Mages just spamming Water Cannon.

I get that you wish it was a normal job, but promise you it's better this way. If they made it a normal job, they would have to strip most of the charm of playing the class.

[P0W3RK1D]

Keeping blue mage separate from the other classes opens up way more possibilities primarily. Players can customize the exact blue mage that they want to play from a myriad of different choices. They can live a power fantasy of soloing at-level dungeons, they can have fun.

solo content and customizability can only carry a class so far before it becomes just another wasted effort, eventually Blu needs to have some way to play the current content, otherwise whats the point? "mom, why would you get me a Playstation 1 for my birthday? You do realize the playstation 5 is out right? I know crash bandicoot racing is fun, but whats the point of feeling fast, beating NPCs if i cant even play with my friends who all have the ps5"

Imagine if everyone wanted Dragoon to be released, it is one of the Final Fantasy common classes after all. and so after YEARS of practically Begging Square Enix to add the class they do -- Only for it to be announced as a Limited Job. There is a Game mode for it called the Dragon Arena in which you fight hordes of dragons in order to unlock skills and abilities, and you can even do dungeons with premade parties. But Dragoon will always be level-locked 10-20 levels under the current content, wont be able to play the main storyline quests, and wont be able to use the duty finder without a premade party -- and thus an entire iconic class was ruined and delegated as a useless mini-game. There are other ways to work around BLUs unique battle system -- but this aint it chief...

Another problem looping them into normal classes is that there will be a "best spell setup" and people that don't bring that setup would be ostracized and potentially hold back groups that they're in, that's on top of the fact that you can't get some people to do job quests that it literally tells you about to get new job abilities. You can't expect an average blue mage player (if it were a normal job) to keep up with figuring out what blue magic they can get and from what mob. You would have expert roulette Blue Mages just spamming Water Cannon.

Easy.
1. ppl have internet, they can look it up
2. SE can make their in game instructions on which mobs give which spells clearer, and they can even make a checklist/Map for the Bluemage Spellbook
3. if which spells BLU has are a problem then just add a dng restriction (you cant use duty finder to enter this dungen without at least acquiring X spells)

I get that you wish it was a normal job, but promise you it's better this way. If they made it a normal job, they would have to strip most of the charm of playing the class.

The meta is a shaky battleground my G, but by limiting BLU to this degree, especially after so many ppl (including me) have wanted it for so long you have already stripped it of its charm.

[Koka-Kola]

AMAZING IDEA!!

[LeonKeyh]

Imagine if everyone wanted Dragoon to be released,[...] There are other ways to work around BLUs unique battle system -- but this aint it chief...

False equivalency. Dragoon's primary class lore isn't about learning skills. The entire point of BLU in Final Fantasy is finding the spells and learning them from enemies. You _can't_ do that in an MMO because of the reasons that I stated. Also, you would have to limit the spells either by power or cut down the total number of spells that BLU can learn to keep up with general class balance and complexity for PS4/controller players.

Easy.
1. <snip>

1. Like people look up that healers are meant to do DPS. Like people look up rotations for their DPS class. Like people look up how to cycle cooldowns as tanks. Like people look up that Cure I/Physick/Benefic shouldn't be used at max level. Like people look up what stack markers are. Like people look up how they should use AE attacks on multiple enemies. People don't look things up. Also, from a user experience standpoint, they shouldn't have to. If BLU were a normal job then like all of the normal jobs it shouldn't require people to leave the game to figure out how to play at a reasonable level.

2. So, remove the interesting part of BLU (trying to figure out what the spell/NPC is) and just make it a checklist. Sounds fun. Why not just make it job quests at that point since a system exists for that already? At that point, what differentiates BLU from everything else?

3.Create a completely new system for this single job that is a normal job but somehow needs to be treated differently? Doesn't sound like a normal job to me. Sets horrible expectations for users that decide to choose BLU as their main. "All of these jobs are the same" turns into someone trying to continue their MSQ and being told that they need to open up some checklist and do more work and running around than any other job needs to do in order to progress.

The meta is a shaky battleground my G<snip>.

The reason that you have the ability to say that in FF14 is because of how great balance is for classes. The fact of the matter is that a large part of the reason why for the most part any job is accepted that falls into the role they like is because of the lack of customization of the jobs. One Samurai has the same general floor and ceiling of output as another Samurai at the same ilvl. Other than getting to track down the spells, the other value of BLU's gameplay is the customization behind it. You want to put together a tank spec? Go for it. Healer spec? Sure, why not? DPS? Definitely. You _can't_ have something like that in the current "normal" job ecosystem while maintaining class balance.

In order for BLU to be a normal job you have to either destroy what makes the class interesting, or provide a horrible user experience that doesn't match the "normal" classes but is pretending to be.

[Koka-Kola]

but there is no reason for the class to change and to be limited. it has its cooldowns, its burst, and as far as damage goes, I know redmages who hit harder than blue mage. I keep seeing things about balance and changing the class but it needs neither of the two to become normal. it doesnt HAVE a normal rotation nor should it. blue mage should have freedom to do what ever content the player wants aslong as its item level and spell level (spells acquired) are at a certain point. I've seen people complain about a player can queue without damage skills. That issue lies with the player and not the class so why limit the class. most blue mage spammable only go to 220 potency. then cooldowns that have over a minute cd time only do 300-450 potency. keep in mind most of the CDs are shared with other spells. as far as dps, its damage is normal for its level. Only complaint is skills like ultra vibration and level 5 death. It deserves more than what little freedom it has. I mean for a "solo" content job, I cant even do story.

[Raikai]

but there is no reason for the class to change and to be limited. it has its cooldowns, its burst, and as far as damage goes, I know redmages who hit harder than blue mage. I keep seeing things about balance and changing the class but it needs neither of the two to become normal. it doesnt HAVE a normal rotation nor should it. blue mage should have freedom to do what ever content the player wants aslong as its item level and spell level (spells acquired) are at a certain point. I've seen people complain about a player can queue without damage skills. That issue lies with the player and not the class so why limit the class. most blue mage spammable only go to 220 potency. then cooldowns that have over a minute cd time only do 300-450 potency. keep in mind most of the CDs are shared with other spells. as far as dps, its damage is normal for its level. Only complaint is skills like ultra vibration and level 5 death. It deserves more than what little freedom it has. I mean for a "solo" content job, I cant even do story.

But think about it, outside of just the dps spells and numbers, Blue mages have a lot of things that would affect other job's gameplay and affect the overall balance of a fight, to name a few:
- Condensed Libra if it would interact with non-blue mages
- White Wind would trivialize healing for the healers when provided by dpsers on occasion
- Blue Mage healers are much stronger than the regular ones and can bring way more dps than those. Healing as a Blue Mage is hella boring, though.
- An offtank BLU with cactguard would make the main tank basically have a perma mitigator
- Diamondback is insane defensive utility for the non-tanks against certain mechanics, especially because of the long duration
- Aetherial mimicry allowing you to have the offtank only be a tank when necessary, so it would essentially make it a full fifth dpser

And at that scope, it would make the devs wary of future spells being given and how they would affect the whole composition instead of just the blue mage bubble.


Honestly, Blue Mages being not Limited and allowed with the rest of the group for current content would certainly cause imbalances to the point that people would be obliged to run with at least 2 of them just because of the insane utility... Don't get me wrong, if I could choose, I'd certainly have them to be a mainstream job as well, but for this to happen it would need a completely different approach.

[P0W3RK1D]

In order for BLU to be a normal job you have to either destroy what makes the class interesting, or provide a horrible user experience that doesn't match the "normal" classes but is pretending to be.

Well what would you say is the point of having a blue mage in the game if you cant really use it to "play the game? i mean there has to be some point to it right? Right now Blue mage is a novelty shop item -- you have it because it looks and feels nice, but your not really actually going (or rather you cant) actually use it for anything important. The fact that i cant at the very least play through current Treasure maps, Dngs, or Main storyline quests with what is one of my favorite classes in the franchise is already runing the experience for me.

[ItMe]

[...] but your not really actually going (or rather you cant) actually use it for anything important.

I guess we just define "important" differently...

[ItMe]

I would say story, current expansion and dungeons are important since its over a third if not half of the game.

The story is important, yes.
What job you watch cutscenes as... I feel that's less so.

Dungeons are important, and BLU not only has access to dungeons but also a unique ways to interact with them. Yay.

The current expansion is lovely, and BLU will have access to it's content soon enough. Being able to use BLU in content while it's current would be nice, but meh. YMMV. Some care some don't.

Again, they said:

your not really actually going (or rather you cant) actually use it for anything important.

(Which they appear to have edited out of their post)
And I guess we just define "important" differently.