Healers Angry when PLD Clemencies

[NorthernLadMSP]

I get way more annoyed with Red Mage's who feel the need to spam cure themselves for no reason instead of DPSing.

[Novae]

Real talk here: most healers in ShB are terrible. I've seen stuff... oooff. And it's even worse in 5.55 with these horrible selfish green bots in Zadnor. So I can't blame PLDs for using clemency.
Is it a waste? Sure ! Is it game breaking? Absolutly not.

[Powercow]

From a theory crafting perspective you make very good points. Where this becomes a very much grey area though is DF content with randoms. Shaving off a GcD is much less important if the healer is trying to get his cat off his keyboard, the MNK is stood in all the bad, chewing crayons and only Jesus knows what happened to the BLM.

Well, hey, I did say if the healer is dead it's useful. I shoulda clarified that this also means the healer is brain-dead.

And if DPS are standing in the bad so much that the healer has to not only stop DPSing, but also stop healing the tank... well, that DPS gets to inspect the floor for a minute.

[Goji1639]

Clemency is the main reason why the PLD is the best tank in the game.

Now if you have a good Healer the tanks are pretty much equal, really well balanced. If you have a bad healer, though, which is probably the case more often than not, the other tanks don't even come CLOSE to what the PLD can do. Get a Healer that's practically dead weight with any other tank and the run is doomed, where with PLD it just means the run might take an extra 10 minutes.

When I'm on my PLD I use Clemency any time a Healer let's me sit below 50% for too long, especially if I'm running out of CDs. The fact that the PLD is not at the mercy of DF "quality" Healers is such a strong positive that I had a really hard time leaving PLD for any other tank. In the end I stuck with GNB because it's more fun, but MAN do I miss Clemency.

[kaynide]

From a theory crafting perspective you make very good points. Where this becomes a very much grey area though is DF content with randoms. Shaving off a GcD is much less important if the healer is trying to get his cat off his keyboard, the MNK is stood in all the bad, chewing crayons and only Jesus knows what happened to the BLM.

This is kinda the point I think. For 90% of the game's content it just doesn't matter if the PLD heals or not. If a healer is going to get hurt feelings over it, I really have to ask: why? If it's not going to affect the end result of the activity that much, who cares if the pld isn't pulling 100% dps.

Just my opinion (and apologies if it rubs wrong), but I always envisioned healers that get upset over this kind of thing as being the same people who get road rage over a car cutting in front of you. It happens, it was not the best move of that driver, but at the end of the day you're still going to get the d@mn mall.

[ItMe]

In general you should trust your clerics enough to never use it just because you're getting low, but man Clemency is a fantastic tool to use when raiding. Especially during prog the fight can sometimes just fall apart, Clemency is a way to help take care of yourself (or another key team member) when your clerics are overwhelmed to help ensure the run doesn't go under. There have been a fair number of times as DRK where the clerics were hard rezzing or had no cooldowns/MP or whatever, so I drop, my death is the final straw and it totally sinks the run, and I've thought "if only I had clemency to heal myself."
Heck, because of this, in some raid tiers I've play PLD as my prog tank, and then later swap another after learning the fight.

Beyond that, it's really kinda just a tool for soloing or cheesy party comps.

[Sqwall]

1. Stay alive
2. Hold enmity
3. Do damage.

The best tanks, by far are the ones who can think on their feet and adapt to the challenge the party is currently facing, a tank that swaps priority 3 for priority 1 is not some holy than thou super tank. Sure, you can blame the rest of the party for messing up mechanics all you want and maybe in a highly organized farming fight you could have a good point. For the majority of players, in the majority of content though being adaptable is far more useful.

This is a great sentiment as I have just given up on healers scolding me as I play all tanks in EX/Savage. PLD clemency is HIGHLY underrated and underutilized. Example: When I run Diamond EX as a PLD I tell the healer don't worry about me after tank busters. as my burst rotation lines up almost every time. I pop requiescat and Clemency once with no cast time and *poof*, it crits for around 80k HP! Then I finish out my burst with 3 holy spirit and Confiteor. Do I lose some DPS...yes. Do I care? Nope. Save the benediction, essential, excog for when it truly matters.

I have been running with pretty much the same healers during EX and some Savage where they know when i'm on PLD that i'll more then likely use clemency quite a lot. And they welcome it. The rest falls on the DPS/Heals to pull up the damage. Me being a tank my DPS isn't as crucial as theirs, as my main concern is to stay alive.

I did the math on one diamond EX and it's only a 9-10 min fight with my group.

Estimated for ease:

9 x 60 = 540 seconds (time of EX in seconds)

Clemency
540/60 = 9 (requiescat cooldown and amount of burst window per fight)
55,000 x 9 = 495,000 HP Clemency average HP gained if using 1 clemency per burst. (estimated value)

Nascent Flash + Inner Release
540/90 = 6 (Inner Release cooldown per EX run)
Nascent Flash used EVERY Inner Release
6 x 3 = 18 Direct Hits inside Nascent Window, my WAR is hitting for around 50k each hit on Diamond EX, 50% of that is 25k Heal with Nascent.
18 x 25,000 = 450,000 HP per Diamond EX fight with using Nascent + Inner Release

Clemency 495,000 HP
DPS lost 225,000

Nascent + Inner Release 450,000
DPS lost 0

For fun:

Clemency used 4 times per burst phase?
9x4 = 36 uses
36 x 55,000 = whooping 1,980,000 HP restored
DPS lost? 36x25,000 = 900,000 damage lost

Clemency vs. Nascent
495,000-450,000 = 45,000 clemency wins out standard
1,980,000-450,000 = 1,530,000 clemency CRUSHS nascent flash.

I laugh at those that think Nascent is OP, but when you look at the numbers PLD is PRO at healing itself over the course of 10 min.

Sadly this game is all about DPS and clemency is regarded COMPLETELY as a DPS loss and is relegated to a only in emergency skill. Sad because PLD can really throw down the heals better then any tank.

[Jeeqbit]

Clemency does give you security in certain dungeons with big pulls, because if the healer struggles then clemency means you don't need to rely on them, but it is overall rare that a healer cannot handle them if you mitigate and avoid AoE well. I realised from playing the other tanks sometimes that it just didn't matter that I didn't have clemency or Hallowed Ground.

Some examples of dungeons that either have big pulls that still or previously benefit from clemency with certain healers:

Ala Mhigo (healers frequently still in leveling gear)
Kugane Castle (last pull)
The Drowned City of Skalla (pull before second boss, easier now it's not current)
The Burn

Most dungeons don't hurt enough but these are a few examples I've found it useful in multiple times.

[HyperSMB]

I used to be a healer main, sometimes I would screw up. When tanks covered for that it was lovely.

If you need to clemency, do it. But spamming it to be BM a healer is kinda low.

[AngelCheese77]

As a WHM main, I don’t really care if a PLD uses Clemency. Like getting annoyerd when a RDM uses VerCure and VerRaise. That’s dumb