Healers Angry when PLD Clemencies

[Artemiz]

It's a hard one to call because to get it right it requires raid awareness. Most of the time it won't be needed but if the healer is struggling with a huge work load it can be really useful. In my experience as a long time tank but poor healer, is healers tend to be most under pressure when too many people fail mechanics and are spread out as this significantly reduces the effectiveness of AoE healing. So if I'm doing 8 or 24 man content, the party is spread out, 1 member is down and the rest of us are low on health then use it, don't worry too much about healing others but keep yourself alive at least. I would also use Divine Veil as well in this situation.

On the other hand if you're the only one taking damage and the party is reasonably competent then leave the healer to do their thing, the best healers tend to let you get pretty low before dealing with it but obviously your responsibility there is to not take spike damage if you can avoid it.

In 4 man content it's almost never needed but you get one of those "herding cats" parties then go for it, if a healer chews you out for it then ignore and move on. I've never known healers get angry the PLD used clemency in that situation though.

[Theodric]

It's a useful tool. I use it if I see that someone has just been revived because I've seen a lot of players end up dead again due to not being healed after they've revived, even if they choose not to do any actions to lessen the chance of being hit by something. It's particularly the case in Alliance raids or Eureka/Save the Queen zones where it isn't unusual for multiple players to be dead at any given time.

[Jennah]

There are basically four times to use Clemency:

1) In 4-man content when your healer is dead. The best part is that you generally only have enough mana to keep yourself and one other dps up; so you often get to PICK which dps lives and which dies
2) In Shadowbringers dungeons outside of Expert Roulette, when you have a healer who has level-skipped or is otherwise obviously struggling, and you've already used every single cooldown. Even then, generally only a single clemency.
3) To self-proc divine veil, when a boss is about to do a big roomwide AoE.
4) If you are trying to solo old content, and have just taken damage that was originally meant to be split between 8 people, or was meant to be an insta-wipe for failing a mechanic.

Any other time you use it you are playing VERY poorly; especially when you've hit level 80 and can use that mana for some serious damage every minute.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

Actually, when I do expert roulette with my WHM friend, it's actually way more efficient for me to solo heal myself than for her to heal me. I lose some dps, but she gains so much that it compensates it a lot. I wouldn't advise to do it with PU healers since they can take offense or don't do as much damage sinve they're not necessarilly geared for it, but we gain roughly 3k dps per pack if she doesn't heal me.

"blabla, then you don't do enough damage, blablabla" I don't care if you don't know the game enough to trust me. This is a measured fact.

[ReiMakoto]

If you're even remotely geared, and your healers know how to press off globals then clemency should never be needed. Dungeons do so little damage that the odds of your clemency saving a healer a gcd is so low you might as well save the mana for your burst, as plds magic aoe phase is pretty strong.

[Miracle_Diva]

I got kicked from a duty once by a PLD and his friend because I didn't keep him 100% at all times and he had to Clemency himself as I was "busy dpsing and not doing my job".
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[PyurBlue]

In general Clemency shouldn't be used, healers have much better heals at their disposal that don't cost a GCD and lose your group damage. However a tank that self heals isn't automatically bad, there are very occasional reasons where you might want to use the spell. The worst case is when PLD's Clemency without even being below 50% HP. With healer abilities as strong as they are it feels like a waste to use them on a tank with most of their HP remaining, especially Benediction or Essential Dignity.

[Artemiz]

I see a lot of comments here suggesting it's poor play to use it, or it should only be used in very niche situations etc... the main reason is because it cost you dmg as a trade off. Well I beg to differ, sure in high skilled co-ordinated static groups that might be true but in DF content? nah. The priorities of tanking have not changed in forever,

1. Stay alive
2. Hold enmity
3. Do damage.

The best tanks, by far are the ones who can think on their feet and adapt to the challenge the party is currently facing, a tank that swaps priority 3 for priority 1 is not some holy than thou super tank. Sure, you can blame the rest of the party for messing up mechanics all you want and maybe in a highly organized farming fight you could have a good point. For the majority of players, in the majority of content though being adaptable is far more useful.

[Sqwall]

1. Stay alive
2. Hold enmity
3. Do damage.

The best tanks, by far are the ones who can think on their feet and adapt to the challenge the party is currently facing, a tank that swaps priority 3 for priority 1 is not some holy than thou super tank. Sure, you can blame the rest of the party for messing up mechanics all you want and maybe in a highly organized farming fight you could have a good point. For the majority of players, in the majority of content though being adaptable is far more useful.

This is a great sentiment as I have just given up on healers scolding me as I play all tanks in EX/Savage. PLD clemency is HIGHLY underrated and underutilized. Example: When I run Diamond EX as a PLD I tell the healer don't worry about me after tank busters. as my burst rotation lines up almost every time. I pop requiescat and Clemency once with no cast time and *poof*, it crits for around 80k HP! Then I finish out my burst with 3 holy spirit and Confiteor. Do I lose some DPS...yes. Do I care? Nope. Save the benediction, essential, excog for when it truly matters.

I have been running with pretty much the same healers during EX and some Savage where they know when i'm on PLD that i'll more then likely use clemency quite a lot. And they welcome it. The rest falls on the DPS/Heals to pull up the damage. Me being a tank my DPS isn't as crucial as theirs, as my main concern is to stay alive.

I did the math on one diamond EX and it's only a 9-10 min fight with my group.

Estimated for ease:

9 x 60 = 540 seconds (time of EX in seconds)

Clemency
540/60 = 9 (requiescat cooldown and amount of burst window per fight)
55,000 x 9 = 495,000 HP Clemency average HP gained if using 1 clemency per burst. (estimated value)

Nascent Flash + Inner Release
540/90 = 6 (Inner Release cooldown per EX run)
Nascent Flash used EVERY Inner Release
6 x 3 = 18 Direct Hits inside Nascent Window, my WAR is hitting for around 50k each hit on Diamond EX, 50% of that is 25k Heal with Nascent.
18 x 25,000 = 450,000 HP per Diamond EX fight with using Nascent + Inner Release

Clemency 495,000 HP
DPS lost 225,000

Nascent + Inner Release 450,000
DPS lost 0

For fun:

Clemency used 4 times per burst phase?
9x4 = 36 uses
36 x 55,000 = whooping 1,980,000 HP restored
DPS lost? 36x25,000 = 900,000 damage lost

Clemency vs. Nascent
495,000-450,000 = 45,000 clemency wins out standard
1,980,000-450,000 = 1,530,000 clemency CRUSHS nascent flash.

I laugh at those that think Nascent is OP, but when you look at the numbers PLD is PRO at healing itself over the course of 10 min.

Sadly this game is all about DPS and clemency is regarded COMPLETELY as a DPS loss and is relegated to a only in emergency skill. Sad because PLD can really throw down the heals better then any tank.

[ZedxKayn]

This is a great sentiment as I have just given up on healers scolding me as I play all tanks in EX/Savage. PLD clemency is HIGHLY underrated and underutilized. Example: When I run Diamond EX as a PLD I tell the healer don't worry about me after tank busters. as my burst rotation lines up almost every time. I pop requiescat and Clemency once with no cast time and *poof*, it crits for around 80k HP! Then I finish out my burst with 3 holy spirit and Confiteor. Do I lose some DPS...yes. Do I care? Nope. Save the benediction, essential, excog for when it truly matters.

I have been running with pretty much the same healers during EX and some Savage where they know when i'm on PLD that i'll more then likely use clemency quite a lot. And they welcome it. The rest falls on the DPS/Heals to pull up the damage. Me being a tank my DPS isn't as crucial as theirs, as my main concern is to stay alive.

I did the math on one diamond EX and it's only a 9-10 min fight with my group.

Estimated for ease:

9 x 60 = 540 seconds (time of EX in seconds)

Clemency
540/60 = 9 (requiescat cooldown and amount of burst window per fight)
55,000 x 9 = 495,000 HP Clemency average HP gained if using 1 clemency per burst. (estimated value)

Nascent Flash + Inner Release
540/90 = 6 (Inner Release cooldown per EX run)
Nascent Flash used EVERY Inner Release
6 x 3 = 18 Direct Hits inside Nascent Window, my WAR is hitting for around 50k each hit on Diamond EX, 50% of that is 25k Heal with Nascent.
18 x 25,000 = 450,000 HP per Diamond EX fight with using Nascent + Inner Release

Clemency 495,000 HP
DPS lost 225,000

Nascent + Inner Release 450,000
DPS lost 0

For fun:

Clemency used 4 times per burst phase?
9x4 = 36 uses
36 x 55,000 = whooping 1,980,000 HP restored
DPS lost? 36x25,000 = 900,000 damage lost

Clemency vs. Nascent
495,000-450,000 = 45,000 clemency wins out standard
1,980,000-450,000 = 1,530,000 clemency CRUSHS nascent flash.

I laugh at those that think Nascent is OP, but when you look at the numbers PLD is PRO at healing itself over the course of 10 min.

Sadly this game is all about DPS and clemency is regarded COMPLETELY as a DPS loss and is relegated to a only in emergency skill. Sad because PLD can really throw down the heals better then any tank.

Uh... Nice maths but Nascent is still overall much more valuable than Clemency regardless if it could heal less because you don't beat fights by healing yourself, you beat them by hurting the enemy. If there's no damn good reason to clemency, just let your healers do their job.