Dark Knight where is my Identiy

[WhyAmIHere]

Living Shadow, like Delirium in Stormblood, has that overly heavy gate of 50blackblood and hard recast. Why both, pick one. 50 blood only (would be more fun imo, blackblood expenditure would involve more thought) or fixed recast.

Curious to see if in Endwalker they do the same thrice in a row, another capstone with a heavy cost/gate

With Del in Stormblood you could feel its affect via the increased uptime of every-other blood weapon (and increased mp over-cap risk), where as living shadow is more fire and forget.

Risk/Pressure of over-capping I miss, and in HW it was hitting them low blow procs and hoping for more (you get a 100 potency, you get a 100 potency, you get 100 potency). If DRK had those 2 gimmicks ever again I'd be pleased ... also Scourge and Sole Survivor animations are missed

It's DRK. If you aren't used to being neglected by SE as a DRK main by now, man, pick up the axe, gunblade, or the scythe come 6.0. It'll be better for you.

[RinaB]

"Make me HWS drk again"! And when they do you'll all be back here crying that they ruined drk again. Anyone who thinks SB dark arts spam was skill is an idiot. That playstyle was awful as you could just play warrior for way more bang for your buck, and most people did. Why does everyone think drk needs to be this special unique tank? Look at the tanks now, most people suck at them and can barely play them properly in their current itteration. Be careful what you ask for.

[Kalaam]

You know, what people want is for each tank to feel distinct and fun to play.
Nobody asked for Dark Art spam to come back (as you said this was SB, not HW).
Even HW had flaws, the MP management was sometimes very annoying, especially during dungeon pulls where your only AoE abilities drained your MP really fast.
But here we focus on DRK, so we ask for improvement on DRK's gameplay and playstyle. Nobody asks "make every tank boring except dark knight so dark knight is extra special".
Ideally, all tanks would feel very unique and equally effective at their job, in different ways.

[shao32]

Well at contrary that current SHB DRK nobody really complained about DRK gameplay in the past in terms of gameplay identity and such, literally all complains was about numbers and to much DA and living dead bad, and to have to say it yes SB DRK required more skill and focus to don't mess up by overflowing your resources and using properly your skills at contrary that current DRK independent of how much you hated the DA spam, at least the job require you to think when you operate it.
Probably ppl would have been less critic if DRK rework make it diferent but still a unique job compared to the other tanks, i probably still play it, but they choise to make the bigest part of his gameplay be WAR carbon copy gameplay and he we are.

Every job in this game have to be unique and special, thats the reason we have new jobs, other wise we just have to stay with the original roster and should complain the devs are wasting to much developing time on that, DRK deserve to offer a unique gameplay experience like it did in the past like the rest of the jobs in this game.
And don't wanna sound rude but low skill players that just play tanks casually bcs whatever reason shouln't have to be a determinat point to make a job, if not then every job in this game should be made for 3yo, having one complex and advance tank doesnt hurt anyone bcs there is other choices for those who want something more easy like PLD in the past, it doesn't hurt anyone have more a complex tank like BLM is on DPS for example.

[RinaB]

Well at contrary that current SHB DRK nobody really complained about DRK gameplay in the past in terms of gameplay identity and such, literally all complains was about numbers and to much DA and living dead bad, and to have to say it yes SB DRK required more skill and focus to don't mess up by overflowing your resources and using properly your skills at contrary that current DRK independent of how much you hated the DA spam, at least the job require you to think when you operate it.
Probably ppl would have been less critic if DRK rework make it diferent but still a unique job compared to the other tanks, i probably still play it, but they choise to make the bigest part of his gameplay be WAR carbon copy gameplay and he we are.

Every job in this game have to be unique and special, thats the reason we have new jobs, other wise we just have to stay with the original roster and should complain the devs are wasting to much developing time on that, DRK deserve to offer a unique gameplay experience like it did in the past like the rest of the jobs in this game.
And don't wanna sound rude but low skill players that just play tanks casually bcs whatever reason shouln't have to be a determinat point to make a job, if not then every job in this game should be made for 3yo, having one complex and advance tank doesnt hurt anyone bcs there is other choices for those who want something more easy like PLD in the past, it doesn't hurt anyone have more a complex tank like BLM is on DPS for example.

No it doesn't but gnb is a good example of a new job with plenty of buttons that most people are garbage at because "mah gunblade". The issue with old drk is that outside the 1% who master it, it's going to be a burden for most parties. The other issue is that old drk revolved around old class design and enmity. If you were to put old drk in the game now with current enmity design it would feel pointless and strange. I know you guys are asking for a unique experience for drk and that's fine but it may cause more unintended consequences.

[RinaB]

Current drk needs adjustments not a complete regression to the past because it simply won't work. Delirium needs to be changed because it's boring and stupid. Salted earth needs to do way more dmg as it's a stationary circle. Blood weapon fills its role fine and has a decent cd for what it does unless you're playing on Starbucks wifi. Abysmal drain needs a much shorter cooldown or charges and a bit more potency. I would also like to see 2 base combo options. Bring back power slash and have it give a shield effect similar to brutal shell and have it regain like 200 to 400 mana. Increase thr potency of soul eater to make it a worthwhile alternative.

[currentlemon]

snip

You know, I wouldn't mind having Dark Arts sap DRK's HP a bit. It would be really cool, and most importantly, make the job stand out among the other tanks. I think that kind of Dark Arts would even benefit from the 6.0 Healer Direction that SE is going with. WHM and AST can cast their Regen spells while SCH and SGE can keep their shields spells up as DRK will continue to use Dark Arts.

Damn, you just gave me an idea. Need to think about this.

[ItMe]

That said, Dark Arts does not necessarily need to be a Blood spender. There's also the option, for instance, of using it as a nearly use-on-cooldown free CD, returning it to an indirectly contributing MP spender competing with Edge and Flood, or even a manner of tapping into your own HP (dipping HP as not to let DoTs overheal) to generate additional tanking-useful effects (which in turn, when properly employed, save more HP than they cost and could make DRK a uniquely smooth-to-heal job), etc., etc.

That would be pretty classic DRK.
Hmm...

[shao32]

No it doesn't but gnb is a good example of a new job with plenty of buttons that most people are garbage at because "mah gunblade". The issue with old drk is that outside the 1% who master it, it's going to be a burden for most parties. The other issue is that old drk revolved around old class design and enmity. If you were to put old drk in the game now with current enmity design it would feel pointless and strange. I know you guys are asking for a unique experience for drk and that's fine but it may cause more unintended consequences.

GNB like every job starting at such high levels suffer the problem of starting at lvl 60 wich is a desing philosophy i don't understand from SE, they wanted to players get in to it and progress with the story as soon as posible when the expansion starts and i can get that but creates a severe problem of ppl don't knowing what they are doing specially if they never tanked before since the skip the job learning progresion by slaping to the player to many skills on his face, GNB is not complex compared to most DPS and PLD is more complex than GNB right now and none of the tanks could match the dificulty of a DPS right now since all of them are pretty damm easy so i hope you understand the total lack of complexity of DRK bother me a lot, specially when the job on his peak wasnt really as hard as ppl try to make look at it and don't start at absurb leves like GNB or future sage and reaper.

The second issue i don't see it at all, if we cut the power slash combo wich DRK never use it outside from the opener from the begining the job still have a identity based on MP generation, Darkside upkeep as it consume you MP and the priority system on MP consumition and GCD finisher usage, none of them affected by the old enmity system and can be easily implemented with current braindead enmity system.
The only mechanic that could mean a problem is the parry mechanic and the procs based on it on reprisal and lowblow that locked DRK in the MT spot but still skyping them you still have the core of the DPS rotation and basically most of his Gameplay identity intact and ready to build on it.

In the end everything is comunication, when i say i want HW DRK back is a modernized version of the job without the stuff like power slash combo and parry mechanics on it since the enmity combo was redundant and the lost wont affect anything and the parry mechanics can be sustitued by new unique mechanics like a proper living shadow for example, it's not bring HW DRK entirely like it was on the current day and more like i want his core and Gameplay desing without the problem of the past, better and deeper job experience based on who it was and not on what other tank it is right now.

[RinaB]

GNB like every job starting at such high levels suffer the problem of starting at lvl 60 wich is a desing philosophy i don't understand from SE, they wanted to players get in to it and progress with the story as soon as posible when the expansion starts and i can get that but creates a severe problem of ppl don't knowing what they are doing specially if they never tanked before since the skip the job learning progresion by slaping to the player to many skills on his face, GNB is not complex compared to most DPS and PLD is more complex than GNB right now and none of the tanks could match the dificulty of a DPS right now since all of them are pretty damm easy so i hope you understand the total lack of complexity of DRK bother me a lot, specially when the job on his peak wasnt really as hard as ppl try to make look at it and don't start at absurb leves like GNB or future sage and reaper.

The second issue i don't see it at all, if we cut the power slash combo wich DRK never use it outside from the opener from the begining the job still have a identity based on MP generation, Darkside upkeep as it consume you MP and the priority system on MP consumition and GCD finisher usage, none of them affected by the old enmity system and can be easily implemented with current braindead enmity system.
The only mechanic that could mean a problem is the parry mechanic and the procs based on it on reprisal and lowblow that locked DRK in the MT spot but still skyping them you still have the core of the DPS rotation and basically most of his Gameplay identity intact and ready to build on it.

In the end everything is comunication, when i say i want HW DRK back is a modernized version of the job without the stuff like power slash combo and parry mechanics on it since the enmity combo was redundant and the lost wont affect anything and the parry mechanics can be sustitued by new unique mechanics like a proper living shadow for example, it's not bring HW DRK entirely like it was on the current day and more like i want his core and Gameplay desing without the problem of the past, better and deeper job experience based on who it was and not on what other tank it is right now.

I feel bad because I understand your points but the problem SE has is they don't want severely underrepresented jobs. People are like water, they will always go the easiest path with most reward. Let's say drk becomes what you want in 6.0 but warrior stays relatively the same with huge damage, you end up in SB again where everyone is a warrior and only a small handful are even capable of playing drk optimally. I agree the class needs adjustments to make it non warrior and maybe that's coming. Every tank should feel very different and right now they all feel pretty different but there is a level of homogenization that I do not like either.