Dark Knight where is my Identiy

[Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai]

Honestly I thought this thread was dead but here we are, thank you

I like the way you think not joking weaving on drk feels great and i love edge and flood - though I hate floods animations- I still love the feeling and yeah most of drk's magic was removed. I would love to hear your idea on how to bring back the old ways into a better light I'm sure we can do it

I wasn't stating that drk never had an identity, I just want us to be on the same page. We all see drk in a different light so I just wanted to be clear on what we want. Also yes I'm am aware of SS PS combo One of the best looking combos, scourge, Passage of arms (bubble party), deaths dance when reprisal was a proc, when salted earth didnt hurt bosses or and enemy that was in the air. I've played drk since HW i remember. I do wish for more buttons the 1-2-3 combo does get stale and seeing HS hurts me deeply but this is a one I would be satisfied if they just brought back PS as a combo finisher and make it give you something like mp/shield/dmg/or mit etc or do the SB machinist treatment and when heated was earned. With SE simplifying everything asking for two full combos seems to me like an improbability.

I would love to see more spells on drk

3.x was a good Drk more fine tuned and the gauge was the best in the game

I would like the idea of DA being used on other things not just a free Edge or flood.

Yes! Haft and haft, I feel like that was a core of drk as for could 3.x drk fix this i would have to brainstorm on that one but really I would love to read more. If you got a doc please let me know. As for me I haven't written it out but i have many ideas as well, but I wanted to see what everyone who plays drk feels before i make a concrete decision.

I acknowledge your thanks. =w=; some person had to come around poking the threads and making some noise, I was happy to be that instigator.

1, on weave / a lot of people liked old Dark Knight for its "speed".. and FFXIV has two kinds of speed... Monk GCD speed, and weave "illusion of speed".
I feel like the best thing for Dark Knight is the illusion of speed, that comes from weaving oGCDs between GCDs. but Dark Knight's current weave is dull and redundant... just Edge/Flood of Darkness/Shadow spam and the occasional big-CD oGCD.
to summarize my ideas, four words: various oGCDs, weave rotation. / GCD rotations and CD rotations exist, why not a weave rotation?

2, "bring back the old ways into a better light" / I literally have a more-than-20,000 characters(I forgot the word count) head-canon pet project for Dark Knight, that I call "Re-inventing Dark Knight: Blood Magic, Blood Weaving, and the Blood Sigil", where-in I have taken every action that Dark Knight has ever had, HW, SB, PvP-redisgned-into-PvE, and ShB, re-designed and remastered the old, tweaked the current, and completely over-haul re-designed Dark Knight, based off of taking its various versions and combining all of it, and then taking all of that and re-designing it to fit my Dark Knight head-canon.

3, on differing opinions / sadly, same issue as bard. I have even seen a fairly big "What is Bard?" thread, and it sad that it even needs to be questioned. Dark Knight has this same issue, a literal identity and existential crisis, and when asked "what is Dark Knight?", not all Dark Knights say the same thing. not even all dark knights want change and improvement, only a lot of us want change and improvement. but here-in lays the issue... we all want "change", there is little agreement on the what and how of this change.
different people see Dark Knight in different ways, and at this point, Dark Knight even has different fan "factions/groups", that split all of us up and divide us, based on what we want Dark Knight to be and/or think that Dark Knight is... I have no idea how to resolve that conundrum.

4, more spells on Dark Knight / I agree with that, and even went so far as to remaster Dark Knight's old deleted spell actions, and then even created some of my own actions and/or spell-actions, out of my own head-canon of Dark Knight.

5, about Dark Arts / go check out the Dark Arts-focused thread "Should Dark Arts Come Back in 6.0? If so, What Should the Skill Do?"
old Dark Arts is being debated to death.

6, whether or not I have a Doc / I do, but my pet project "re-inventing Dark Knight" is too amazing and high-quality "for FFXIV to handle". I would need to(be forced to?) dumb down at least half the thing, down to FFXIV level of dumb and simple, to make it "FFXIV-friendly and more compatible", unless I could convince the dev team of other-wise. And I will do that if I have to, I mean the dumb-down, as I did at least create my own ideas and remaster old actions to be theoretically completely compatible with FFXIV... I just.. am a complex woman, and so are my ideas, but FFXIV has been made dumb and simple, so my "not compatible" concern is being blown off and rejected over "too complex".

[Vatom]

DRK is 100% a Berserk inspired thing. It's the only reason I'm playing it now.

https://www.pcgamer.com/final-fantas...-unfathomable/

If you want to bypass post limits, edit your posts, add the rest in.

Think everyone's just gonna be spinning their wheels until more tangible things come to light. Best to keep expectations at their absolute lowest to avoid too much disappointment. That's not a slap to the devs, it's just more realistic than changes to the framework.

First comment I have to say is you do know the difference between inspire and base right? I gave this a few days to see anyone else had something to say but nothing came so just adding that.

Next thank you good sir I will take this tip into consideration

Finally my goal is simply to get everyone on the same page and have a solid realistic idea of what we want so when EW comes out we can be ready to present it if not happy with drk at the state never said we gotta fix drk now cause their not.

Note: I understand we all are grieving over the lose but I was just saying the truth as a berserk fan I know the difference between drk and guts. Now I get that’s why you play drk but my reason I play drk is totally different and that’s understandable love what you love but that doesn’t change game design

Now! Drk identity what we got anyone got ideas?

[Shurrikhan]

Now! Drk identity what we got anyone got ideas?

Hair-brained idea (though actually from back before DRK's release):

I'd like DRK to be a sort of blackguard archetype, sort of the bastard pragmatist dirty-fighting tank with significant toolkit breadth at its disposal by which to accomplish fairly fine manipulations, favorable trade-offs, exploitations, capitalizations, etc.

Thematically, it should center around Blood and Shadow. Shadow comes from MP spent. Simple enough. Now the crazy part: I'd like DRK's "Blood" resource to actually come from... blood -- that is to say, from HP stolen or spent. Yes, you can spend HP.

If that sounds antithetical to a tank, let me be concise: you're mistaken. A tank is the only role for which HP-spending makes sense (as for any other it just turns into externally-derived maintenance (heal requirements) that is either obligatory and disruptive or undertuned and never used) and the capacity to spend HP during damage lulls to generate resources by which to defend against damage spikes can be a tremendously useful unique advantage.

Basically, I want DRK to be a gigabrain tank with uniquely interesting healer co-play and exceptional reason to vary its pacing while playing around certain pivotal CDs or soft-CDs (e.g., DoTs, like a returned Scourge).

I can provide details later if this hasn't already summoned torches and pitchforks.

[Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai]

Hair-brained idea (though actually from back before DRK's release):

I'd like DRK to be a sort of blackguard archetype, sort of the bastard pragmatist dirty-fighting tank with significant toolkit breadth at its disposal by which to accomplish fairly fine manipulations, favorable trade-offs, exploitations, capitalizations, etc.

Thematically, it should center around Blood and Shadow. Shadow comes from MP spent. Simple enough. Now the crazy part: I'd like DRK's "Blood" resource to actually come from... blood -- that is to say, from HP stolen or spent. Yes, you can spend HP.

I mentioned Blood Magic before. technically speaking, original Dark Knight did not have Blood Magic, just Dark Magic... but I think that Dark Knight should utilize Dark and Blood Magic. It is nice to see that someone else is also thinking about how to add Blood Magic into Dark Knight's design.
there are three kinds of Blood Magic, the first being the more friendly one, the other two being sacrifice, and sacrifice of? either sacrifice of your own blood, or sacrifice of the blood of others. my ideas were the first and third, so I like that you have ideas for the second.

[Vatom]

Thematically, it should center around Blood and Shadow. Shadow comes from MP spent. Simple enough. Now the crazy part: I'd like DRK's "Blood" resource to actually come from... blood -- that is to say, from HP stolen or spent. Yes, you can spend HP.

No pitch forks here, kinda like the idea though i can see some complications with LD but if Blackest night can mit some of that damage could see this working pretty smoothly and it would help if it doesn't pop either. As for resources drk uses Mp and gauge adding another might be alot for less seasoned players but idk that will need more thought.

5, about Dark Arts / go check out the Dark Arts-focused thread "Should Dark Arts Come Back in 6.0? If so, What Should the Skill Do?"
old Dark Arts is being debated to death.

Checked it out, read it all, brain hurts but saw some good concepts
Still dont think we need to have a spam dps button but! I do like the concept of it being on the gauge and changing your combo to another move, it could bring back other combos in a clever way.

Gonna spit ball a concept real quick see if this is a good one just a few ideas I was thinking about

Delirium have it give you unaspected dmg instead and haft you mp cost of all abilities for a duration and its on the gauge (cost 25-50)

Blood weapon Give it back the haste and keep the mp/ gauge gain but also give it 2 stacks same CD or longer

"New" Dark Arts (Just to give this idea a name) on the gauge cost (10 - 25) 10 might be too low this changes you 1-2-3 combo into different types of moves like scourge or power attack (Similar to the Mach treatment with heated back in SB)

Bloodspiller and quietus take them off the gauge and give them the atonement treatment where if you perform finisher like Stalwart or soul eater or enhanced versions it allows you to use like 3 for a duration of 25s

though I look back at this now and think maybe this is a bit much Se might not ever do that. Ill keep brainstorming.

Also I too have thought of a overhaul to Drk that involved Darkside coming back as a stance dance but no in the keep aggro sort of speak but enough of that what is this Dark sigil? sounds sick.

[Shurrikhan]

No pitch forks here, kinda like the idea though i can see some complications with LD but if Blackest night can mit some of that damage could see this working pretty smoothly and it would help if it doesn't pop either. As for resources drk uses Mp and gauge adding another might be alot for less seasoned players but idk that will need more thought.

• Suggestion that involves a damn near from-scratch rework.
• Assumedly, Living Dead, of all things, would remain exactly the same...
• ???

I kid, but really, don't worry. There are many ways to handle LD's niche without it being a miserable disappointment at odds with any given set of adjustments.

For instance, LD could, in effect, just allow you to go into negative HP for 10-12 seconds, while a trait like Blood for Blood (a.k.a. "healer's bane") more than linearly increases DRK's self-healing based on their missing %HP (including that negative portion from LD, or, say, damage delayed by Dark Dance) for some sweet, sweet empowered Souleaters or Abyssal Drains. Since it'd technically provide no mitigation, it could also afford a shorter cooldown than most while having iconically DRK-ish slight DPS value in its optimization (and not just through healing spared).

[Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai]

As for resources, drk uses Mp and gauge, adding another might be alot for less seasoned players, but idk.. that will need more thought.

Delirium have it give you unaspected dmg instead and haft you mp cost of all abilities for a duration and its on the gauge (cost 25-50)

Blood weapon Give it back the haste and keep the mp/ gauge gain but also give it 2 stacks same CD or longer

Bloodspiller and quietus take them off the gauge and give them the atonement treatment where if you perform finisher like Stalwart or soul eater or enhanced versions it allows you to use like 3 for a duration of 25s

Also I too have thought of a overhaul to Drk that involved Darkside coming back as a stance dance but no in the keep aggro sort of speak but enough of that what is this Dark sigil? sounds sick.

1, about Delirium / I have posted my thoughts on this serious issue else-where, but here we go again. my thoughts on Delirium are threefold...
one / bring back original Delirium? I would rename it to Delirium/Delirious Slash, though, to emphasize being a physical GCD like other other slashes(Hard, spinning, and Power). and remaster the WeaponSkill, as well. new potency, new bonus effect.
two / revert back to old Delirium. I rather like how the old Delirium would buff other MP recovery actions, to recover even more MP.
it was at least a lot more interesting than the trash Inner Release copy current Delirium...
three / all new Delirium. a new ability with a effect that matches the definition of the word "Delirium".

2, about Blood Weapon / I have actually seen other people also comment about a interest in Blood Weapon with the Haste bonus again. another two desire for Blood Weapon, which includes my own(the latter), would be to either turn Blood Weapon into a "grants 5 stacks" action, or at the least!, increase the damn duration to 11 or 12 seconds, so that Dark Knights can more of ease have the fifth hit in Blood Weapon, instead of the current nonsense of Blood Weapon's current duration is 9.8 seconds... where 2.40 GCD x 4 = 9.6 seconds... so, yeh.. seriously... 9.6 to 9.8 seconds, that fifth hit is a serious issue.

3, about BloodSpiller and Quietus / I am not so certain about them to no longer have a BlackBlood points cost, but I have thought about and debate to take them off of the GCD, and make those two oGCDs, instead...

4, about DarkSide / my decision on DarkSide, in my re-inventing Dark Knight pet project, was for Dark Knight to have both the old stance DarkSide,
and the current DarkSide.

5, about the "Blood Sigil" / hohohohoh! now we are going more deep into my head-canon, fair warning. "The Blood Sigil" is a few different things...
a third resource, a resource OverFlow storage, a "passive" resource that buffs actions, and also a "spent" resource that can spent on various actions
and spent in a few different ways...

first, the Blood Sigil is a third resource, along with the MP bar and the BlackBlood gauge, while these three resources also interact with each other.
The Blood Sigil also has various forms, scrawled, formed, inscribed, and awakened, as well as released.
now with this in mind... the Blood Sigil is a two-halves resource, and each of the two halves come from a different part in the weave rotation.
"Scrawled" is when the Dark Knight has only one half of the Blood Sigil, so the Dark Knight can not use the Blood Sigil.
while "formed".. is when both halves of the Blood Sigil are "drawn", and the Blood Sigil is now both active and ready for use.

while the Blood Sigil is "formed", it becomes a "passive resource", it already grants the Dark Knight beneficial bonuses, just for it being ready.
on the other scale, "Inscribed" and "Awakened" are how the Dark Knight "spends" the Blood Sigil as a "spent" resource. "Inscribed" is when the Blood Sigil is spent on buffing physical actions, while "Awakened" is when the Blood Sigil is spent on buffing magic actions.
additionally, while the Blood Sigil is "Inscribed" or "Awakened", the "Formed" bonuses of the Blood Sigil are still in effect.

last, but aught except the least, the Blood Sigil also acts as a "resource OverFlow storage". DO NOT DO THIS ON PURPOSE, as the point of it is... when MP or BlackBlood points are "on accident" generated more than the resource pool can take, in other words the "OverFlow / wasted resource", the Blood Sigil "absorbs" that "wasted" resource, and stores it... for example, if your MP bar is at 9700 and your Syphon Strike grants 600, you OverFlow and waste 300MP. the Blood Sigil.. if "formed", will "Absorb" and store that 300MP.
this is the Blood Sigil's last ability. at any time, the Dark Knight can "release" the absorbed resources(MP and BlackBlood) from the Blood Sigil, which makes the Blood Sigil activate its temporary "released" mode, in which the Blood Sigil places as much MP points and/or BlackBlood points into their resource pools as it can, while keeping all of the any resources that would "OverFlow" from the "release", still "absorbed" inside it, and will even "Absorb" any resources that may be on accident generated and "OverFlow" at the same as when the Blood Sigil was in its temporary "released" mode.

[Kabooa]

Basically, I want DRK to be a gigabrain tank with uniquely interesting healer co-play and exceptional reason to vary its pacing while playing around certain pivotal CDs or soft-CDs (e.g., DoTs, like a returned Scourge).

Rubs hands together with gigabrain intent.

No more MP. Hear me out.

Using Edge/Flood now reduces maximum HP, as well as losing any HP over the excess of your new HP total. You cannot reduce your maximum hp to 0%. This is the 'blood' cost of utilizing your dark skills. The cooldown of these skills will likely also be increased, but frankly, for a hypothetical build, they can stay at 3s for all I care.

You are given this visual information with the new Blood Gauge - 3 notches indicating your current status. Each gauge of this that is filled grants you 20% mitigation, stacking additively, as well as 20% penalty on all healing received, and the -25% maximum health.

Boring Math as to why.

Let us say you have 100 HP. You Edge yourself down to 25 HP.

You have an additional 60% mitigation, meaning you effectively have 60 HP.

The Blackest Night grants you health equal to 1 Blood pip, improving your baseline EHP to 50. At 60% mitigation, you have 125 EHP.

The healing penalty keeps healing proportionate to your damage intake and curbs abuse cases with Non-TBN shields. TBN for the Dar Knight is a cornerstone defense, and it is tuned so that the Dark's EHP upon using it is equivalent at all blood pips.

How much blood each Edge/Flood generates will be based on how stupid this should get. For the sake of sanity, it should probably generate '3'.

'2' and you're constantly doing simple arithmetic. Whether that's a problem or not is up to the individual.

'1' and, well.

Utilizing Blood skills restores your maximum HP, but it does not necessarily heal you. This means in order to get moar Floods/Edges, you need to dump your blood gauge, but do so in a manner that won't end up with you dying as a result. Lets go over a few options.

Bloodspiller/Quietus - Now that Blood is no longer a fill-gauge, these weaponskills instead cost 1 of blood. The exact dynamic of these skills can vary widely, but they'd always be available, but at reduced potency. These are your last choice in managing Blood. Probably turn these into buff granters.

Abyssal Drain - Remains an OGCD with a cooldown. Removes all Blood, dealing AoE potency scaling up for each pip removed, and healing for damage dealt.

TBN - Cooldown increased as it no longer has an MP cost. TBN, upon breaking, removes 1 Blood and heals for 25% of your actual maximum HP.

Blood Weapon - Costs 1 Blood, has a recast. Grants your weaponskills %Lifesteal.

Delirium - Removes all blood, has a recast. Shortens the recast of Edge/Flood of shadow.

Living Dead - Locks your blood gauge as well as abilities that utilize it for 8 seconds. Nullifies most attacks, removing 1 blood for each attack nullified. Ends at 0 Blood, after 8 seconds, or upon pressing Living Dead again (with a short internal CD to prevent misfires).

The effective goal, obviously, being more Edges / Floods, and avoiding utilizing GCDs to do so, and avoiding doing it in a such a manner that you end up paste, while also taking advantage of huge TBN effectively being a 100% Max HP shield, and taking advantage of timed healing skills like Earthly Star, Excog, group AoEs, etc to an extent that other tanks don't.

[Shurrikhan]

No more MP. Hear me out.

Using Edge/Flood now reduces maximum HP, as well as losing any HP over the excess of your new HP total.

I think I get the concepts here well enough, but I've made the mistake of critiquing one of your ideas without having read carefully enough before, so I don't want to assume.

Could you give a little more insight into the playflow of this -- what it would actually feel like, or what the points of attention would be as you're working through its sort of rotation?

________________________

For now, though (apologies in advance):

At a gut feeling (likely errant), while I like that the maximum HP decreases make the punishment that much less avoidable, I dislike that it therefore diminishes healer interaction. Moreover, and this may by hypocritical, I feel that dropping to below typical non-tank maximum HP crosses a thematic threshold (or, feels less "tank-like") than dropping current HP to dangerous levels, even if the eHP ultimately still pans out towards the tankier. It just feels more like what I'd expect from a Reaper snap-tanking (if spurts of 1.x-style cross-role play were still a thing) more than a plate-armored knight wielding a giant sword.

Final probe: If Edge/Flood are to potentially remain 3s CDs, shouldn't Delirium instead reduce the cooldown on, say, Blood Weapon or TBN? Or is it meant to make Edge/Flood an every-GCD cast during some synergetic period?

Final nitpick: Please tell me the in-game term would not be a "pip" of Blood. I can't help but imagine a phlebotomist instead. Sorry, probably just a me thing. (Though I've little idea what else to call it... a "mote"? Idk.)

[Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai]

Final nitpick: Please tell me the in-game term would not be a "pip" of Blood. I can't help but imagine a phlebotomist instead. Sorry, probably just a me thing. (Though I've little idea what else to call it... a "mote"? Idk.)

uhm... hmn. I would call it the "Blood Points" of the "Blood Gauge", but.. uh... hmn. a tick? ...a splatter? how does one describe blood in a amount of volume that does not sound as dumb as "a drop"...