How is monk after the rework?

[wereotter]

After greased lightning rework i really enjoy monk, before that it was just a pain to keep it up and then also lose it with tornado kick.

Might be Stockholm Syndrome... but now that it's gone I kind of miss it? Like I feel like the sense of urgency the job used to have is gone, and there's nothing left to fill that gap back in. Twin Snakes is a joke to maintain, and now it's really the only melee job without a similar buff to watch. Dragoon has its blood of the dragon, ninja has huton, and while about as deep as twin snakes now, samurai at both it's jinpu and shifu buffs (so one more timer than monk) to watch. I really hope that there's at least something to bring that sense of speed and urgency back, though not so parasitic as greased lightning was.

[MrAptronym]

Monk has a fast GCD, and way more reliance on positionals (and thus managing RoE and TN) to offset that easier buff management. Its not like huton is much work to maintain, nor is blood of the dragon at max level. In fact BotD is just automatic, and not even downtime can stop you besides cutscenes. Its true that some of the urgency on monk is gone, but I think the job still feels fun and active.

Plus I have so many bad memories of losing GL in a dungeon. At least in trials and raids, you know when you are going to lose it, but in dungeons it varied a lot depending on the party.

I think the monk rework puts it in a good place for 6.0. It feels incomplete right now because it is. 5.4 was a bandaid, and you can see it in all of our vestigial skills, but it puts us in a place where the job can actually be built upon now. Doesn't mean 6.0 will be good necessarily, but I think monk has potential right now.

[AnotherPerson]

I mean, Monk was gutted going into Shadowbringers and are you really going to sit there and say that was all just setup for the next expansion? What if EW monk sucks too, is that acceptable because obviously that's just setup for the NEXT NEXT expansion after? Is there some point we can say, hey, no, let's not make a framework for something good and let's actually make it good?

I mean, do you think the HR department will allow a full rework before a new expansion arrives when we're already so late into the current expansion? A full rework essentially is a new job, and a new job is a selling point, even if the expansion isn't focused on that job in particular. It keeps things fresh. Having them remove GL and create a framework lets us know that they are at least planning on giving monk a new mechanic to work around with since it will be easier to rebuild the base foundation of the job rather than adding more band-aids for super niche skills. Whether it would be better than the previous iterations is unknown but at least we know they going to change it with months in advance to work on the job rather than have radio silence and maybe a potential rework.

[Powercow]

I mean, do you think the HR department will allow a full rework before a new expansion arrives when we're already so late into the current expansion? A full rework essentially is a new job, and a new job is a selling point, even if the expansion isn't focused on that job in particular. It keeps things fresh. Having them remove GL and create a framework lets us know that they are at least planning on giving monk a new mechanic to work around with since it will be easier to rebuild the base foundation of the job rather than adding more band-aids for super niche skills. Whether it would be better than the previous iterations is unknown but at least we know they going to change it with months in advance to work on the job rather than have radio silence and maybe a potential rework.

The gutting of Monk began when Shadowbringers launched. Heck, those who were paying attention saw the rework during the press release and collectively thought, "oh, no..." They then made it worse halfway through the expansion. What, was all of that just setup for Endwalker, which is totally going to have the most like, awesomest Monk ever omg guys they've had SOOOO long to work on it. And come on, if they were using the Monk rework as a selling point for the expansion they would have actually mentioned it.

[AnotherPerson]

The gutting of Monk began when Shadowbringers launched. Heck, those who were paying attention saw the rework during the press release and collectively though, "oh, no..." They then made it worse halfway through the expansion. What, was all of that just setup for Endwalker, which is totally going to have the most like, awesomest Monk ever omg guys they've had SOOOO long to work on it.

Yeah, people were complaining how some didn't like the SB iteration of MNK, some people liked the HW iteration of MNK, etc. So ShB came and they changed MNK again. However, the whole point of MNK getting reworked is because everyone complained about it for multiple expansions. They literally this mentioned in 5.3 that MNK will need to be reworked and addressed this issue by saying they will change it, but a full rework won't be done because they're in the middle of the expansion. At this point, you're just ranting and not looking at the facts by saying how they started gutting MNK in ShB and signals the start of ShB setting things up for Endwalker. No, that's not how it works. Every job got changed in Shadowbringers to have a more solid base foundation - which is why all tanks and healers basically function the same compared to their SB iteration even if people don't like the current changes.

And come on, if they were using the Monk rework as a selling point for the expansion they would have actually mentioned it.

Machinist got reworked but it wasn't the poster-boy of Shadowbringers either. That belonged to DRK due to the storyline direction while we got the new jobs DNC and GNB. Likewise, Endwalker will focus on the new jobs Sage and Reaper, and was stated they wanted to make Paladin the poster boy of the expansion. It doesn't mean other jobs which do get changed or reworked are going to be the main focus either. They already mentioned MNK is getting a rework and SMN is going to change because it's at a breaking point, which is already enough to look forward to. Again, whether those changes will be better or worse is unknown, but at least they're doing something about it.

Unless, you want MNK to literally get the same band-aid treatment as before where new skills have niche usage and most of the damage is from your level 1 bootshine combo?

[Powercow]

They already mentioned MNK is getting a rework

Okay, I've seen like 30 people say this and the only thing I've seen about a monk rework was that Monk was getting a rework in 5.3 because they didn't want to make us wait. (And then it got pushed to 5.4.) Do you have a recent source for this? I follow most of the dev stuff and interviews and the last thing I remember comes from:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...808-03-2020%29

We received many comments on how Greased Lightning doesn’t mesh well with content, so we’re currently considering changing Greased Lightning into a trait. However, this would require adjustments for almost all monk actions and would be very expensive in terms of development manpower cost, so our earliest estimate for these changes would be Patch 5.4.

And then
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...810-20-2020%29

As mentioned previously, monk will receive adjustments to Greased Lightning, among other aspects. Greased Lightning will be changed into a trait, and you’ll no longer have to work to maintain it during combat. Along with this change, Greased Lightning-related actions will have their effects and potencies adjusted.

Although this revamp will be quite large, the adjustments aren’t intended to make major changes to the feeling of the job, and we’re doing our best to maintain that feeling of dishing out blows in rapid succession.

Which sounds to me like the mess we have now IS the rework/revamp we were promised. I think people are just hopeful Monk will get another one. It needs one, but I haven't seen where people are getting that the 5.4 gutting was just the pretense to the REAL rework.

Machinist got reworked but it wasn't the poster-boy of Shadowbringers either. That belonged to DRK due to the storyline direction while we got the new jobs DNC and GNB. Likewise, Endwalker will focus on the new jobs Sage and Reaper, and was stated they wanted to make Paladin the poster boy of the expansion.

Ugh, no. No this isn't about not seeing WoL as a monk. We had that before and... oh god did that go horribly wrong.

No, I meant you made a point that the reason they didn't do it mid-expansion was so the Human Resources department (???) could use it as a marketing ploy for the next expansion -- except they have never even mentioned it. If a major overhaul to Monk akin to an entirely new job was supposed to be a selling point for Endwalker it would have likely had at least a single line on one of those slides during one of the fanfests. I dunno. Maybe your uncle works for Nintendo and has all this awesome insight but I haven't seen anything indicating that what you're proposing is true.

[SpeckledBurd]

Okay, I've seen like 30 people say this and the only thing I've seen about a monk rework was that Monk was getting a rework in 5.3 because they didn't want to make us wait. (And then it got pushed to 5.4.) Do you have a recent source for this? I follow most of the dev stuff and interviews and the last thing I remember comes from:

I think it comes from the FFXIV Reddit Discords' translation of the Liveletter Part 2, where Yoshi-P was translated as saying "Since this is just a patch during an expansion, there will be no new skills." which people interpreted to mean that they wanted to do more but couldn't do it mid expansion. They might have said that in an interview somewhere else, but I can't find anything that says that either.

That said, if this does end up being it for Monk and there isn't more substantial work in 6.0 beyond the standard 2 traits and three actions, then I imagine that the Monk playerbase will riot again. After all the best anyone had to say about 5.4 Monk was that it was a good start rather than it being actually good.

No, I meant you made a point that the reason they didn't do it mid-expansion was so the Human Resources department (???) could use it as a marketing ploy for the next expansion -- except they have never even mentioned it. If a major overhaul to Monk akin to an entirely new job was supposed to be a selling point for Endwalker it would have likely had at least a single line on one of those slides during one of the fanfests. I dunno. Maybe your uncle works for Nintendo and has all this awesome insight but I haven't seen anything indicating that what you're proposing is true.

To be fair, MCH getting completely rebuilt into an entirely new job for Shadowbringers didn't get mentioned during the fanfests. For most of the build up to 5.0, all we heard about it was during interviews where they said they "taking feedback" about it. The first time we actually found out what they were doing with it was in the Liveletter before the media tour with the action showcase. We aren't going to have any idea about what they're doing until September/October at the latest, even if an interview directly asks what they're doing with Monk because more likely than not the answer will be "We're compiling feedback for it from Shadowbringers." However I would still say it was part of the advertising/hype cycle, but it was only in the part that appeals to existing players rather than something that's a bullet point on the box to draw in new players.

[Powercow]

I think it comes from the FFXIV Reddit Discords' translation of the Liveletter Part 2, where Yoshi-P was translated as saying "Since this is just a patch during an expansion, there will be no new skills." which people interpreted to mean that they wanted to do more but couldn't do it mid expansion. They might have said that in an interview somewhere else, but I can't find anything that says that either.

Yeah, figured it was an optimistic interpretation of a fan translation or something. Essentially they're just pulling it out of the ether.

However I would still say it was part of the advertising/hype cycle, but it was only in the part that appeals to existing players rather than something that's a bullet point on the box to draw in new players.

Of course new skills are part of the hype, I don't think anyone isn't expecting new stuff. But I think a lot of these people are setting themselves up for a maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaajor disappointment when the massive new Monk overhaul that we were totally, 100%, absolutely-Yoshida-came-to-my-house-and-whispered-it-into-my-ear-while-I-was-asleep-really-they-said-it promised us doesn't happen.

I'll get excited for a monk rework if I see one with the media tour in 4 months.

[Kahnom]

Don’t expect anyting from MNK.
Only disappointment awaits you.

[Amh_Wilzuun]

MNK suggestion for 6.0:

-Every two rear-positional leaden bootshines will proc a "super bootshine" with a flashy animation and higher potency. They can implement this into the job gauge and will reward Monks for hitting their most important positional. This addresses the complaint that MNK doesn't "build up to anything" and is less flashy than other classes.
-Each PB phase will end with one of these super bootshines to replace the usual final bootshine. In order to prevent drifting and a snowball effect if you miss a bootshine, I propose that activating PB should reset your "bootshine stacks". Correct me if I'm wrong, but in your downtime between PB you should be able to do two of these super bootshines (six bootshines in total) and this PB will prevent you from having an excess stack going into your burst phase. This way PB always ends with your most flashy and satisfying move if done correctly.

Would any MNK players like a mechanic like this? I would love something along these lines for Endwalker to add to the satisfaction of the job and reward players for hitting positionals.