How is monk after the rework?

[AnotherPerson]

I mean, Monk was gutted going into Shadowbringers and are you really going to sit there and say that was all just setup for the next expansion? What if EW monk sucks too, is that acceptable because obviously that's just setup for the NEXT NEXT expansion after? Is there some point we can say, hey, no, let's not make a framework for something good and let's actually make it good?

I mean, do you think the HR department will allow a full rework before a new expansion arrives when we're already so late into the current expansion? A full rework essentially is a new job, and a new job is a selling point, even if the expansion isn't focused on that job in particular. It keeps things fresh. Having them remove GL and create a framework lets us know that they are at least planning on giving monk a new mechanic to work around with since it will be easier to rebuild the base foundation of the job rather than adding more band-aids for super niche skills. Whether it would be better than the previous iterations is unknown but at least we know they going to change it with months in advance to work on the job rather than have radio silence and maybe a potential rework.

[Powercow]

I mean, do you think the HR department will allow a full rework before a new expansion arrives when we're already so late into the current expansion? A full rework essentially is a new job, and a new job is a selling point, even if the expansion isn't focused on that job in particular. It keeps things fresh. Having them remove GL and create a framework lets us know that they are at least planning on giving monk a new mechanic to work around with since it will be easier to rebuild the base foundation of the job rather than adding more band-aids for super niche skills. Whether it would be better than the previous iterations is unknown but at least we know they going to change it with months in advance to work on the job rather than have radio silence and maybe a potential rework.

The gutting of Monk began when Shadowbringers launched. Heck, those who were paying attention saw the rework during the press release and collectively thought, "oh, no..." They then made it worse halfway through the expansion. What, was all of that just setup for Endwalker, which is totally going to have the most like, awesomest Monk ever omg guys they've had SOOOO long to work on it. And come on, if they were using the Monk rework as a selling point for the expansion they would have actually mentioned it.

[AnotherPerson]

The gutting of Monk began when Shadowbringers launched. Heck, those who were paying attention saw the rework during the press release and collectively though, "oh, no..." They then made it worse halfway through the expansion. What, was all of that just setup for Endwalker, which is totally going to have the most like, awesomest Monk ever omg guys they've had SOOOO long to work on it.

Yeah, people were complaining how some didn't like the SB iteration of MNK, some people liked the HW iteration of MNK, etc. So ShB came and they changed MNK again. However, the whole point of MNK getting reworked is because everyone complained about it for multiple expansions. They literally this mentioned in 5.3 that MNK will need to be reworked and addressed this issue by saying they will change it, but a full rework won't be done because they're in the middle of the expansion. At this point, you're just ranting and not looking at the facts by saying how they started gutting MNK in ShB and signals the start of ShB setting things up for Endwalker. No, that's not how it works. Every job got changed in Shadowbringers to have a more solid base foundation - which is why all tanks and healers basically function the same compared to their SB iteration even if people don't like the current changes.

And come on, if they were using the Monk rework as a selling point for the expansion they would have actually mentioned it.

Machinist got reworked but it wasn't the poster-boy of Shadowbringers either. That belonged to DRK due to the storyline direction while we got the new jobs DNC and GNB. Likewise, Endwalker will focus on the new jobs Sage and Reaper, and was stated they wanted to make Paladin the poster boy of the expansion. It doesn't mean other jobs which do get changed or reworked are going to be the main focus either. They already mentioned MNK is getting a rework and SMN is going to change because it's at a breaking point, which is already enough to look forward to. Again, whether those changes will be better or worse is unknown, but at least they're doing something about it.

Unless, you want MNK to literally get the same band-aid treatment as before where new skills have niche usage and most of the damage is from your level 1 bootshine combo?

[Powercow]

They already mentioned MNK is getting a rework

Okay, I've seen like 30 people say this and the only thing I've seen about a monk rework was that Monk was getting a rework in 5.3 because they didn't want to make us wait. (And then it got pushed to 5.4.) Do you have a recent source for this? I follow most of the dev stuff and interviews and the last thing I remember comes from:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...808-03-2020%29

We received many comments on how Greased Lightning doesn’t mesh well with content, so we’re currently considering changing Greased Lightning into a trait. However, this would require adjustments for almost all monk actions and would be very expensive in terms of development manpower cost, so our earliest estimate for these changes would be Patch 5.4.

And then
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...810-20-2020%29

As mentioned previously, monk will receive adjustments to Greased Lightning, among other aspects. Greased Lightning will be changed into a trait, and you’ll no longer have to work to maintain it during combat. Along with this change, Greased Lightning-related actions will have their effects and potencies adjusted.

Although this revamp will be quite large, the adjustments aren’t intended to make major changes to the feeling of the job, and we’re doing our best to maintain that feeling of dishing out blows in rapid succession.

Which sounds to me like the mess we have now IS the rework/revamp we were promised. I think people are just hopeful Monk will get another one. It needs one, but I haven't seen where people are getting that the 5.4 gutting was just the pretense to the REAL rework.

Machinist got reworked but it wasn't the poster-boy of Shadowbringers either. That belonged to DRK due to the storyline direction while we got the new jobs DNC and GNB. Likewise, Endwalker will focus on the new jobs Sage and Reaper, and was stated they wanted to make Paladin the poster boy of the expansion.

Ugh, no. No this isn't about not seeing WoL as a monk. We had that before and... oh god did that go horribly wrong.

No, I meant you made a point that the reason they didn't do it mid-expansion was so the Human Resources department (???) could use it as a marketing ploy for the next expansion -- except they have never even mentioned it. If a major overhaul to Monk akin to an entirely new job was supposed to be a selling point for Endwalker it would have likely had at least a single line on one of those slides during one of the fanfests. I dunno. Maybe your uncle works for Nintendo and has all this awesome insight but I haven't seen anything indicating that what you're proposing is true.

[SpeckledBurd]

Okay, I've seen like 30 people say this and the only thing I've seen about a monk rework was that Monk was getting a rework in 5.3 because they didn't want to make us wait. (And then it got pushed to 5.4.) Do you have a recent source for this? I follow most of the dev stuff and interviews and the last thing I remember comes from:

I think it comes from the FFXIV Reddit Discords' translation of the Liveletter Part 2, where Yoshi-P was translated as saying "Since this is just a patch during an expansion, there will be no new skills." which people interpreted to mean that they wanted to do more but couldn't do it mid expansion. They might have said that in an interview somewhere else, but I can't find anything that says that either.

That said, if this does end up being it for Monk and there isn't more substantial work in 6.0 beyond the standard 2 traits and three actions, then I imagine that the Monk playerbase will riot again. After all the best anyone had to say about 5.4 Monk was that it was a good start rather than it being actually good.

No, I meant you made a point that the reason they didn't do it mid-expansion was so the Human Resources department (???) could use it as a marketing ploy for the next expansion -- except they have never even mentioned it. If a major overhaul to Monk akin to an entirely new job was supposed to be a selling point for Endwalker it would have likely had at least a single line on one of those slides during one of the fanfests. I dunno. Maybe your uncle works for Nintendo and has all this awesome insight but I haven't seen anything indicating that what you're proposing is true.

To be fair, MCH getting completely rebuilt into an entirely new job for Shadowbringers didn't get mentioned during the fanfests. For most of the build up to 5.0, all we heard about it was during interviews where they said they "taking feedback" about it. The first time we actually found out what they were doing with it was in the Liveletter before the media tour with the action showcase. We aren't going to have any idea about what they're doing until September/October at the latest, even if an interview directly asks what they're doing with Monk because more likely than not the answer will be "We're compiling feedback for it from Shadowbringers." However I would still say it was part of the advertising/hype cycle, but it was only in the part that appeals to existing players rather than something that's a bullet point on the box to draw in new players.

[Powercow]

I think it comes from the FFXIV Reddit Discords' translation of the Liveletter Part 2, where Yoshi-P was translated as saying "Since this is just a patch during an expansion, there will be no new skills." which people interpreted to mean that they wanted to do more but couldn't do it mid expansion. They might have said that in an interview somewhere else, but I can't find anything that says that either.

Yeah, figured it was an optimistic interpretation of a fan translation or something. Essentially they're just pulling it out of the ether.

However I would still say it was part of the advertising/hype cycle, but it was only in the part that appeals to existing players rather than something that's a bullet point on the box to draw in new players.

Of course new skills are part of the hype, I don't think anyone isn't expecting new stuff. But I think a lot of these people are setting themselves up for a maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaajor disappointment when the massive new Monk overhaul that we were totally, 100%, absolutely-Yoshida-came-to-my-house-and-whispered-it-into-my-ear-while-I-was-asleep-really-they-said-it promised us doesn't happen.

I'll get excited for a monk rework if I see one with the media tour in 4 months.