Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[Awha]

No one needs to argue that because the amount of impact for each person is subjective. There is no argument to be made.

You don't choose your party in DF. You choose your party in PF. If you care about who you party with, use the tool that facilitates that.

That is my point, if one cares to play a certain way and guarantee that style of play they should use PF or queue with friends. That means if you want to be a freestyle sam, a meled rdm, or a try hard ninja wherever the your cards fall they should use the tools provided by SE.

Thing is when it comes to people with higher standards we are told we should do x y and z but those who wish to do play poorly and mention they were removed they are told it should not have happened, that it is toxic, those people should use PF.

In the end you are right you do not pick the DF so people really should not complain if they are removed from the DF due to playing a certain way that did not mesh with the group. If they want to guarantee how they play queue with friends or use the PF. That is my point the same standard should be applied to both sides.

This was mentioned in the other post. It is subjective in terms to the degree of how an action impacts the group what is not subjective is each action voluntary or involuntary does impact the group. Though I mentioned that part cause the person I mentioned I think I misunderstood them but was saying playing poorly did not impact the group or impact the group in the same way due to the nature of the higher standard tries to dictate how another one plays. Though I was trying to explain that the degree if the impact is moot cause that varies from person to person so we should so focus on what is the core issue that creates the double standard imo. Which is if people want to guarantee a certain style of play only way to go about it is to queue with friends or use the PF. This goes for high low and every in between.

That is all.

[SenorPatty]

Pages and pages on and people still are glossing over a very simple point I have made time and time again. That it takes the smallest amount of effort to do things generally correctly and be passable, but that's beyond half the players I meet.

because people have no counter argument to that and have to strawman and make up excuses for just this
absolutely no one in this thread was complaining about people making avoidable mistakes here and there - no, it was about people not knowing and refusing to learn how to play their classes

Or its still going on because it's the same posters arguing to one another about the same thing in a cozy hamster wheel.

[LariaKirin]

Nice fallacies right?
Have you invented that I "get frustrated" when the reality is that I or someone tells you something you are doing, do you ignore it or do not want to do it? We kick you.

Look how frustrated or how many headaches it gives me to have to press two buttons

What fallacies? And why are you taking it so personally? It's not even about you, it's a general statement.

Maybe try reading again to understand the point instead of getting defensive for no reason.

[linayar]

That doesnt change the fact things need to change. Please stop just sweeping things under the rug when theres a very prevalent problem. This isnt even just limited to people not happy with who they get paired with. It's a problem with the game and the things they dont teach that should really be in the tutorial. There is an argument to be made for that.

Except I would agree that the game should teach the players more and better. My posts have not been about that, though. Have you misunderstood my posts?

That is my point, if one cares to play a certain way and guarantee that style of play they should use PF or queue with friends. That means if you want to be a freestyle sam, a meled rdm, or a try hard ninja wherever the your cards fall they should use the tools provided by SE.

Thing is when it comes to people with higher standards we are told we should do x y and z but those who wish to do play poorly and mention they were removed they are told it should not have happened, that it is toxic, those people should use PF.

In the end you are right you do not pick the DF so people really should not complain if they are removed from the DF due to playing a certain way that did not mesh with the group. If they want to guarantee how they play queue with friends or use the PF. That is my point the same standard should be applied to both sides.

This was mentioned in the other post. It is subjective in terms to the degree of how an action impacts the group what is not subjective is each action voluntary or involuntary does impact the group. Though I mentioned that part cause the person I mentioned I think I misunderstood them but was saying playing poorly did not impact the group or impact the group in the same way due to the nature of the higher standard tries to dictate how another one plays. Though I was trying to explain that the degree if the impact is moot cause that varies from person to person so we should so focus on what is the core issue that creates the double standard imo. Which is if people want to guarantee a certain style of play only way to go about it is to queue with friends or use the PF. This goes for high low and every in between.

That is all.

Well, while I can see why that would be ideal, I guess it depends on what the majority is like. Just the fact that the NA region has relegated hard contents to PF would make me conclude that they have given up on DF. So, in that case, I would just say go with the flow.

[ZedxKayn]

I'm kind of baffled by "that" part of the playerbase tbh.

There is nothing enjoyable in knowing you're putting in the work for someone that can't be bothered to press a button every 2.5secs in a co-op environment.

[linayar]

I'm kind of baffled by "that" part of the playerbase tbh.

There is nothing enjoyable in knowing you're putting in the work for someone that can't be bothered to press a button every 2.5secs in a co-op environment.

Uh, believe it or not, there is a kind of a power fantasy fulfillment in being able to clear the content almost by yourself.

With that said, I'm always too busy pressing my own buttons to notice what others are doing or not doing most of the time unless it becomes really obvious, like stopping a battle obvious. Those are rare, though.

[ZedxKayn]

Uh, believe it or not, there is a kind of a power fantasy fulfillment in being able to clear the content almost by yourself.

With that said, I'm always too busy pressing my own buttons to notice what others are doing or not doing most of the time unless it becomes really obvious, like stopping a battle obvious. Those are rare, though.

As a healer I definitely understand that fantasy, but it really requires at least 5 or 6 players being clueless, including my co-healer, to get a kick out of it in casual content

As an AST I have to watch what everyone in the party is up to as much as I can, so that stuff is jarring to me x-x

So I don't really get why someone would defend lazyness

[Awha]

Except I would agree that the game should teach the players more and better. My posts have not been about that, though. Have you misunderstood my posts?

Well, while I can see why that would be ideal, I guess it depends on what the majority is like. Just the fact that the NA region has relegated hard contents to PF would make me conclude that they have given up on DF. So, in that case, I would just say go with the flow.

Maybe but I will still advocate for people who want to guarantee a certain style or level of play should use PF or queue with friends. Also if people run into a style of play they do not agree with or inconvenienced by try their hand at removing them before just accepting the 30 min timer.

Uh, believe it or not, there is a kind of a power fantasy fulfillment in being able to clear the content almost by yourself.

With that said, I'm always too busy pressing my own buttons to notice what others are doing or not doing most of the time unless it becomes really obvious, like stopping a battle obvious. Those are rare, though.

I also did not notice at first that is why I say having installed ACT was one of the best / worse things I have done in this game. Just confirmed my suspensions. Though I do get the desire some have to just go with the flow.

[SturmChurro]

As an AST I have to watch what everyone in the party is up to as much as I can, so that stuff is jarring to me x-x

So I don't really get why someone would defend lazyness

Yeah,I'm on WHM most of the time, or tank in dungeons. It's pretty easy to spot people not using abilities, having buffs up, castbars, etc.. When I am on my WHM my entire damage "rotation" is pretty much one button. Even if I wasn't watching healthbars, or the raid, I'd still be able to tell something is wrong by how long particular fights are taking. It's why I don't really believe people when they say they don't see it, or it doesn't happen often... it does happen often.. like, really often..

[Wasselin]

I just don't really pay that close of attention to what others are doing. Even if I notice people doing something that I wouldn't necessarily do that way, I don't really get upset by it. I'm doing what I do regardless of what other people are doing. Who cares if someone isn't trying as hard as me, or isn't able to try as hard as me?

If something someone else is doing, or not doing, adds to the challenge of the encounter for me I try to find things that I can do personally to overcome that challenge. That's part of what makes this game, and mmos in general, fun-- is that it's unpredictable because you are playing with other people. If everyone just followed their rotations and executed every fight perfectly you might as well be playing a single player game with bots.