Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[Doozer]

The problem is, the current system relies on the good players carrying the bad players, but teaching or helping them can actually net you a ban.

Do you have proof of that? I've never once been banned or disciplined for teaching someone something, even if they didn't ask. Stop spreading the lie of the "talk and get banned" bogeyman.

[Alaray]

Do you have proof of that? I've never once been banned or disciplined for teaching someone something, even if they didn't ask. Stop spreading the lie of the "talk and get banned" bogeyman.

I'll say it's not so much a boogeyman when someone received a permanent strike on their account for listing a Party Finder with: "Snape kills Legolas in John Wick 4". There's a lot of innocuous things that receive GM actions, and trying to provide advice can be one of those things purely based on the tone someone else read it in. It's not consistent moderation, it's not clear moderation and it does impact the community of the game to where, if, someone genuinely wants to receive critique/advice a lot of people will only provide it over a third party platform just due to the chance of there being a risk at all.

And while, sure, providing advice to someone who didn't ask is considered rude within this community, at the same time making a suggestion in order to increase the efficacy of a party has always been a component to MMO sociability. And someone bluntly offering advice isn't really, to me at all, something that should get someone a permanent strike. Maybe a "remember, you can blacklist people you don't like" statement and then left alone.

But just because I haven't personally been affected by something like this, doesn't mean it doesn't happen and doesn't mean it hasn't impacted player to player interactions.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I'll say it's not so much a boogeyman when someone received a permanent strike on their account for listing a Party Finder with: "Snape kills Legolas in John Wick 4". There's a lot of innocuous things that receive GM actions, and trying to provide advice can be one of those things purely based on the tone someone else read it in. It's not consistent moderation, it's not clear moderation and it does impact the community of the game to where, if, someone genuinely wants to receive critique/advice a lot of people will only provide it over a third party platform just due to the chance of there being a risk at all.

And while, sure, providing advice to someone who didn't ask is considered rude within this community, at the same time making a suggestion in order to increase the efficacy of a party has always been a component to MMO sociability. And someone bluntly offering advice isn't really, to me at all, something that should get someone a permanent strike. Maybe a "remember, you can blacklist people you don't like" statement and then left alone.

But just because I haven't personally been affected by something like this, doesn't mean it doesn't happen and doesn't mean it hasn't impacted player to player interactions.

"allegedly"

the fact they have a screenshot for that is a bit suspicious, no?

[Alaray]

"allegedly"

the fact they have a screenshot for that is a bit suspicious, no?

What even is this take.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

What even is this take.

How do they know that was why they were reported? Who takes screens hots of the party finders they put up?

I don't believe they got suspended for the message in the screenshot in the slightest.

Oh, and the post in question was removed for misleading or false information so....

[Alaray]

How do they know that was why they were reported? Who takes screens hots of the party finders they put up?

I don't believe they got suspended for the message in the screenshot in the slightest.

Oh, and the post in question was removed for misleading or false information so....

Eh? You can see their entire discussion with the support staff, the person is pretty clear that they didn't have an actual screenshot of the actual PF since, to them "who would report /that/" and GM's don't provide it, but if you've only put up 1 or 2 within a month period it doesn't take a genius to figure out which one sparked the trouble. And people I generally trust know the person, and saw the PF they put up in the private tab when they, themselves, were joining their own group's.

People've gotten in trouble for less, the point still stands regardless.

[Doozer]

I'll say it's not so much a boogeyman when someone received a permanent strike on their account for listing a Party Finder with: "Snape kills Legolas in John Wick 4". There's a lot of innocuous things that receive GM actions, and trying to provide advice can be one of those things purely based on the tone someone else read it in. It's not consistent moderation, it's not clear moderation and it does impact the community of the game to where, if, someone genuinely wants to receive critique/advice a lot of people will only provide it over a third party platform just due to the chance of there being a risk at all.

And while, sure, providing advice to someone who didn't ask is considered rude within this community, at the same time making a suggestion in order to increase the efficacy of a party has always been a component to MMO sociability. And someone bluntly offering advice isn't really, to me at all, something that should get someone a permanent strike. Maybe a "remember, you can blacklist people you don't like" statement and then left alone.

But just because I haven't personally been affected by something like this, doesn't mean it doesn't happen and doesn't mean it hasn't impacted player to player interactions.

That's all very flimsy and you must know that. I don't know what PF listings have to do with it, but the one you listed is just spam or improperly using the PF, so if it's reported and a GM thinks it's violating a rule, then that's par for the course. Assuming it's even true, of course.

Just because someone is upset that someone said something to them, that doesn't mean the person will be punished. I have never in my life encountered someone wanting advice given on a third-party platform. I even had someone ask me after an alliance raid when we were both SAMs about a specific thing I was doing, and we briefly chatted about rotations and efficiency before they thanked me and left. Miraculously, neither of us got in trouble.

Since we're using unrelated examples, I get in arguments sometimes and have never received a strike at all. Again, miraculously, nothing bad happened. No one I know has gotten in trouble for just speaking. You're all just perpetuating this belief that talking gets you in trouble so much that people who've never even been in trouble start to believe it.