Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[Saefinn]

It's not an odd bad run. A good 50-60% of all my DF roulettes have one or more players massively underperforming. Maybe I am just unlucky I dunno.

Probable, though I guess depends what your standard is for under performing is.

And I also find it depends on what you get in the roulette. I find certain fights with certain dependencies on mechanics have a higher rate of failure, but I find that is reduced if I just immediate up front mention the mechanics that give people the worst issues. Like the tear in Chrysalis & the meteors, the tank split in Moggle Mog & kill order, a couple of the mechanics in Titania, that sort of thing. Given they're all required for story, you'll almost inevitably get first timers or people who have only ran it once or twice. Then you have me who's been here for 8 years and ran them a bajillion times. These are all mechanics that aren't obvious unless you've failed them before or read a guide. Heck, on the "read a guide" front, if you take somebody like me, a guide is practically useless as I learn most by doing, because I need to be able to visualise and get a feel.

[Awha]

Or you have a skewed vision of what 'massively' underperforming is? Also, it's DF.

Or you have a skewed version of what is not ‘massively’ underperforming? Sure it is DF but expecting general competence is not asking for much though that is the problem this community has differing views of what is general competence which often leads to colorfully discussions in NN.

[IDontPetLalas]

I think you are forgetting what is going on outside. If you live in America everything was effectively locked down for over a year. If you live in India or other places death is all around you. People are doing these activities to escape what has categorically been the worst year most of us have ever been through.

If that is what they enjoy then more power to them. From what I have learned with FF14 is that when you do not gate the gear behind some RNG garbage then people will create other forms of end game that involve interacting with other people. This is how MMO's used to be before developers realized they could milk you for game time if they put gear and skill power behind time gated RNG garbage.



This statement makes no sense when 530 gear exist and is better that that 510 gear. People do not raid nearly as heavily in FF14 for the original reason I listed that FC's do not serve the same purpose of organizing people into coordinated groups like guilds do in multiple other MMO's.

You can get up to 520 at your sweet slow pace and avoid dealing with the Savages/Ultimates that takes the idea of community in this MMO and throws it in the nearest dumpster. In that place it becomes about parses and literal god like perfect rotations for 15+ min fights with heavy reliance of measuring a players worth by their ACT parse vs what they contribute to a group.

Even one of the streamers who makes a lot of the guides talks down to a lot of people in this community and suggest ideas about making it so you cannot even do boss damage unless you are doing perfect rotations. She then gets confused why her stream is not growing passed a small niche of people.

If I wanted that toxic community I would install WeakAuras, RaiderIO and multiple other Adds on and go back to WoW but I stay here because a majority of this community rejects the ideology of elitism that is literally killing other MMO's.

I could list games that have been around for years - good games- but are being killed due to such overwhelming RNG that communities that existed for 10+ years have given up- and these were solid communities, with well-known FC/guild/legions that relied upon social interaction. Never-ending gear treadmills are no substitute for actual content - whether it is PVE or (my preference ) PVE and PVP.

Regarding that streamer? Before we go the route of demanding perfect rotations - have we already forgotten Wildstar? we really should think about the 80/20 rule. I "m not saying to leave out Ultimate raiders by any means- however think long and hard about what the majority of players has shown they are interested and capable of doing. Sure, the bar could go a bit higher, but only if SE helps the players along the way - whether its via new player tutorials, better tooltips, etc.

[Caurcas]

Or you have a skewed version of what is not ‘massively’ underperforming? Sure it is DF but expecting general competence is not asking for much though that is the problem this community has differing views of what is general competence which often leads to colorfully discussions in NN.

People get weird with theories in NN. Here on Siren, some people think me and this other player are the same person and do it to "troll". This due to both us pushing for better play. People get weirdly defensive of parasitic play.

[Mahoukenshi]

Theres Elitists on boths sides for what its worth, and both can leave, casual and hardcore

Elitists are ususally associated with raiding as it's endgame group content. What you mean is the vocal toxic "trash" that obviously exists on both sides. On the "elitist" end, there's a prevalent scewed comprehension problem that some people genuinely struggle with content they consider "faceroll easy-peasy" and think that empathy will be a new healing spell in EW. On the "casual" end, there's the meme-worthy "U not pay my sub" level of players who are clearly as toxic as their self-proclaimed enemies, just with the oppiste angle. This minority als has no clue about empapthy in showing enough cooperation in group content if it is clear they are intentionally putting low/no effort. Yet both parties have one thing in common: both love to generalise the others to fit their narrative. "All raiders are elitists/toxic" and "All casuals are trash/leechers/want everything handed on a silver platter".

[Krojack]

I tell all the new players to the game that I know to NEVER JOIN THE NOVICE NETWORK. It's useless and full of trolling and toxic players.

[AngelCheese77]

I'm pretty sure I shared this particular story before in the 'Tales from Duty Finder' thread, anyway for this: berating me for not greeting the party in chat, refusing to heal me (as tank) unless I do so - at the expense of a wipe. Aside from that, griefing in a more general sense would be things like: intentionally blinding party members with RDM LB3 during mechanics, Rescuing players to their deaths, provoking a boss who then cleaves the whole party, etc. All commonplace in this game.

I made macros to say hello now. Turned down others effects. That’s 2 things taken care of. Others are eh ....

[Doozer]

The problem is, the current system relies on the good players carrying the bad players, but teaching or helping them can actually net you a ban.

Do you have proof of that? I've never once been banned or disciplined for teaching someone something, even if they didn't ask. Stop spreading the lie of the "talk and get banned" bogeyman.

[Alaray]

Do you have proof of that? I've never once been banned or disciplined for teaching someone something, even if they didn't ask. Stop spreading the lie of the "talk and get banned" bogeyman.

I'll say it's not so much a boogeyman when someone received a permanent strike on their account for listing a Party Finder with: "Snape kills Legolas in John Wick 4". There's a lot of innocuous things that receive GM actions, and trying to provide advice can be one of those things purely based on the tone someone else read it in. It's not consistent moderation, it's not clear moderation and it does impact the community of the game to where, if, someone genuinely wants to receive critique/advice a lot of people will only provide it over a third party platform just due to the chance of there being a risk at all.

And while, sure, providing advice to someone who didn't ask is considered rude within this community, at the same time making a suggestion in order to increase the efficacy of a party has always been a component to MMO sociability. And someone bluntly offering advice isn't really, to me at all, something that should get someone a permanent strike. Maybe a "remember, you can blacklist people you don't like" statement and then left alone.

But just because I haven't personally been affected by something like this, doesn't mean it doesn't happen and doesn't mean it hasn't impacted player to player interactions.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I'll say it's not so much a boogeyman when someone received a permanent strike on their account for listing a Party Finder with: "Snape kills Legolas in John Wick 4". There's a lot of innocuous things that receive GM actions, and trying to provide advice can be one of those things purely based on the tone someone else read it in. It's not consistent moderation, it's not clear moderation and it does impact the community of the game to where, if, someone genuinely wants to receive critique/advice a lot of people will only provide it over a third party platform just due to the chance of there being a risk at all.

And while, sure, providing advice to someone who didn't ask is considered rude within this community, at the same time making a suggestion in order to increase the efficacy of a party has always been a component to MMO sociability. And someone bluntly offering advice isn't really, to me at all, something that should get someone a permanent strike. Maybe a "remember, you can blacklist people you don't like" statement and then left alone.

But just because I haven't personally been affected by something like this, doesn't mean it doesn't happen and doesn't mean it hasn't impacted player to player interactions.

"allegedly"

the fact they have a screenshot for that is a bit suspicious, no?