Battle Command Design -PLEASE FIX IT

[Rydin]

Well, I hate to "beat a dead horse" or w/e that hick saying is..but! FFXI had a pretty flawless battle system for consol players. The macro system was set up really, REALLY, well; and they were able to keep the traditional FF menu display, which went a long way in capturing my interest.

I think it's safe to say that a pretty strong majority of the complaints out there are based from comparisons to FFXI. So, why not, at LEAST, try to appease both crowds? -Modern MMO players, AND "traditionalists" who usually favor XI > XIV.

yea.... for the 300k people that played FFXI regularly....
Nevermind the 20 million RPG and MMO gamers who didn't

or the 6 million gamers that bought FFXIII

I do love a good menu based RPG.... I do....
But menu based battle just isn't conducive to real time fights
It works offline because you can stop the action at any time to input commands
or you can speed up or slow down battle to suit your tastes

FFXI had some great qualities.... More NM's and content than 4 offline RPGs put together.... Diverse content... long term goals....

the battle system though... is not one of it's selling points... period
In fact... Macro heavy battles are part of the reason FFXI wasn't the hit it could have been.
That type of battle turned A LOT of people off....
You can say "SE should please the FFXI crowd" but for every ex-FFXI player, there are 10 RPG gamers that SE wants to appeal to, and Menu based, macro heavy combat wont do it

Even FFXI enthusiast look back on gear change macros in battle with such disdain that even suggesting it in FFXIV would incite a riot

Lastly... on a personal note.... battle macros leave me feeling disconnected from battle.
Gone are the days when you "issue commands" to your character....
Now.. You ARE your character... down to every swing of the sword or spell you use
Menu based combat is as far inside the box as you can get....
Challenge your brain to think outside it

The current macro system doesn't toggle, so you can accidentally hit some other action, while you're trying to hit a macro, if you don't hold down the L2/R2 triggers very well. And it blocks the action bar, which is really annoying.

It absolutely toggles... There is a menu option that says... are you ready for this... "Toggle Macro Bar" under Configuration>system

You're Welcome

[Dreadnought]

what baffles me is how the OP associated playing with a gamepad with FF. the only reason FFs were played with gamepads is because they were extremely slow paced console RPGs
having a well designed action bar and key bind system makes everything so much more accessible and quicker to use.

[Rau]

If anything, make combo's more automated?

For example, if I use Thunder I, after it is done casting, a small on-screen prompt for the Spacebar to start casting "Thundara", and so on.

[Natabant]

the battle system though... is not one of it's selling points... period
In fact... Macro heavy battles are part of the reason FFXI wasn't the hit it could have been.
That type of battle turned A LOT of people off....
You can say "SE should please the FFXI crowd" but for every ex-FFXI player, there are 10 RPG gamers that SE wants to appeal to, and Menu based, macro heavy combat wont do it

That's your personal opinion; and XI probably did poorly b/c it was originally released to console. If it had been released to pc, originally, w/ a "tapped out" graphics engine, it would probably have made it up there w/ the, alleged, "greats." Anyway, OP doesn't want to *replace XIV's battle system w/ XI's...he wants to have the option for either. It's not asking for much.

Lastly... on a personal note.... battle macros leave me feeling disconnected from battle.
Gone are the days when you "issue commands" to your character....
Now.. You ARE your character... down to every swing of the sword or spell you use
Menu based combat is as far inside the box as you can get....
Challenge your brain to think outside it

Change isn't always better...I dunno why ppl think that "change" automatically = "win." The action bar isn't really "outside the box" either. Like you said yourself, virtually every other MMO out there already does something similar. So, that's a moot point.

It absolutely toggles... There is a menu option that says... are you ready for this... "Toggle Macro Bar" under Configuration>system

You're Welcome

Thanks for that lol...they either added it later, or I didn't bother checking.

[Dreadnought]

That's your personal opinion; and XI probably did poorly b/c it was originally released to console. If it had been released to pc, originally, w/ a "tapped out" graphics engine, it would probably have made it up there w/ the, alleged, "greats." Anyway, OP doesn't want to *replace XIV's battle system w/ XI's...he wants to have the option for either. It's not asking for much.




Change isn't always better...I dunno why ppl think that "change" automatically = "win." The action bar isn't really "outside the box" either. Like you said yourself, virtually every other MMO out there already does something similar. So, that's a moot point.



Thanks for that lol...they either added it later, or I didn't bother checking.

it isnt much of an opinion. the battle UI was criticized the world over by websites and gaming magazines for being clunky and was noted by critics for not having an action bar.

Having to switch between action bars is nothing like what most MMOs do. pretty much every single MMO in existence allows for keybinding abilities to other buttons beside 1-0. even buttons like - = , / ` [ ] ; ' and so on are able to be keybinded to get rid of the need for more than one action bar to scroll through. the current system isnt the worst in the world but its by far less accessible than pretty much any MMO i can think of.

[Tricksy]

Options , Options, Options.

My only concern UI-wise is my screen looking like a WoW screenshot. I like how most of my screen is showing in FF14. I think the lag between moving up and down whilst in the combat bar can be and will be reduced come 2.0 and then I'm a happy camper, using my controller.

Also, to the person muffled by all the noise in this thread :P Who said PS3 users will have a download option for popular Add Ons; thank you for providing that info. Its good to know PS3 players are always in the minds of SE and the Dev team.

[Khal_Drogo]

Options , Options, Options.

My only concern UI-wise is my screen looking like a WoW screenshot. I like how most of my screen is showing in FF14. I think the lag between moving up and down whilst in the combat bar can be and will be reduced come 2.0 and then I'm a happy camper, using my controller.

I've only seen/watched WoW being played, like twice; but from what I saw, I didn't like it at all. XIV feels ALOT like WoW right now. There's lots of button-smashing spam, too much scrolling/hunting for actions, and battle is kinda boring. At least w/ the traditional menu system, it'll bring back some of the "illusion" that this game wasn't developed in a way specifically designed to bring in WoW-players and other like-minded MMO players.


This game copied XI in all the worst kinds of ways, and failed to bring back the only good things it had to offer:

1. A great job system
[although it needed a drastic overhaul thanks to all the /nin bs]

2.Diverse party play (for exp'n), which could have been adjusted to work better
[i.e. more exp for "Easy Prey" mobs, so parties could choose to fight like a roaming "burn pt;" and a much larger exp bonus for choosing to fight the "normal" way... "Incredibly Tough" mobs, so parties can choose to camp if they like] -yes, OPTIONS...for the love of god

3. Intricate goal-oriented gameplay down to the most "trivial" things
[coffers chests and quests that provide maps for "special" areas; tons of nm's that appeal to specific jobs in different ways, to avoid similarities between characters; limit break quests; and so on]

The list goes on...

Also, to the person muffled by all the noise in this thread :P Who said PS3 users will have a download option for popular Add Ons; thank you for providing that info. Its good to know PS3 players are always in the minds of SE and the Dev team.

Assuming that's even true lol...

[Youngblood]

Hmmm....why don't they just have a configuration of both options come 2.0? This way the game can be enjoyed in either play style.

[Rydin]

the battle system though... is not one of it's selling points... period
In fact... Macro heavy battles are part of the reason FFXI wasn't the hit it could have been.
That type of battle turned A LOT of people off....
You can say "SE should please the FFXI crowd" but for every ex-FFXI player, there are 10 RPG gamers that SE wants to appeal to, and Menu based, macro heavy combat wont do it

That's your personal opinion; and XI probably did poorly b/c it was originally released to console. If it had been released to pc, originally, w/ a "tapped out" graphics engine, it would probably have made it up there w/ the, alleged, "greats." Anyway, OP doesn't want to *replace XIV's battle system w/ XI's...he wants to have the option for either. It's not asking for much.

No... it is horrid... A menu based system that is admittedly unintuitive. How do you know the system was bad? because no one used it... everyone used Macros.
So a new person starts the game. They go to fight Marmots. they can either Endure a clunky nested menu in 2012... OR... They can sit down and make a macro (making sure to get all syntax correct) before they ever fight anything.

OR....

They could just run outside and click the icon on the action bar that says "Vorpal Thrust" #IJS

Lastly... on a personal note.... battle macros leave me feeling disconnected from battle.
Gone are the days when you "issue commands" to your character....
Now.. You ARE your character... down to every swing of the sword or spell you use
Menu based combat is as far inside the box as you can get....
Challenge your brain to think outside it

Change isn't always better...I dunno why ppl think that "change" automatically = "win." The action bar isn't really "outside the box" either. Like you said yourself, virtually every other MMO out there already does something similar. So, that's a moot point.

This back and forth could go on all day. Think outside the box vs If it aint broke
Change doesn't always equal win... but in the video game world... YOU HAVE TO CHANGE. Going by your "If it aint broke... don't fix it" logic.. Every game would be super Mario Bros... or Pacman... or PONG....
Back when every RPG was turn based... One man (Akihiko Matsui) said I want FF4 to use an Action time bar (ATB) instead of being turn based... You're welcome
I've admitted the action bar can use an overhaul.. but a nested menu is NOT the way...

Hmmm....why don't they just have a configuration of both options come 2.0? This way the game can be enjoyed in either play style.

Im going to sound like a douche when I say this... and trust me... that is not my intention

I don't want man power and resources dedicated to such a pointless task

The nested Menu plus Macros battle system is an even more unintuitive version of what we have now.
Macros right now are exactly how Macros would be in that system.
Wasted time redoing the UI for relatively no change and worse functionality
Explain to me how Macros would be better (or even different) under this system?
A change is needed... but not that one

[Xoo]

Actually it takes quicker reflexes to use a controller..both takes some sort of dexerity to use properly. If anything you could say using a keyboard and mouse makes you slower, since it depends on the person in general.

Macro system with a PS2/3/360 controller = hit triggers/shoulder buttons hit your confirm key, bam macro fires.

I have found there are upsides and downsides to keyboard vs. controller. On the keyboard side, I can perform actions faster than I can with a controller. If I need a macro, it's one deft flick of the wrist. However, maneuvering about with the keypad does take a lot of dexterity in the middle of something like Ifrit. Many times I've gotten caught in plumes just because I can't get to the keys fast enough to move out of the way.