Trust should go up to trails

[TheMightyMollusk]

Trust parties for Diadem. Get Tataru out of the Rising Stones for some fresh air.

[Caurcas]

All in all the Trust system doesn't fix the core problem that plagues 14. It's a bandaid at best, and detrimental at worst. But, by all means continue to chant for the never ending nerfs and watering down to continue.

[TheMightyMollusk]

So what core problem is this?

[Caurcas]

So what core problem is this?

Certain people being unwilling to take any sort of criticism and improve their play, especially these days when the game has never been more accessible. Instead the moment they encounter any content that requires a bit of effort they start crying for nerfs. See Steps of Faith, Final Steps, Shinryu (on SB launch), or Orbonne.

[strawberrycake]

Certain people being unwilling to take any sort of criticism and improve their play, especially these days when the game has never been more accessible. Instead the moment they encounter any content that requires a bit of effort they start crying for nerfs. See Steps of Faith, Final Steps, Shinryu (on SB launch), or Orbonne.

I think said reactions to criticism stems from the early days when people had to defend themselves for playing 1.0 and ARR, all those people from back then got their friends into FF, and thus the cycle started, its a learned behavior at this point. And now the community reaction is to be scared of the game possibly being seen in a negative light.

And to top that off change isnt bad, but the moment it goes against being more then a social sim, more then a second life situation (at least in my experience) many people suddenly crack and lash out, and all I said was stand in the star or dont go out of healing range. Or, I wish they didnt nerf a lot of fights, they were fun prior, but if I say that then I'm toxic, but I actually miss seeing the mechanics from several HW trial and SB trials, but thats apparently not considering the new players thus toxic and elitist.

[Seera1024]

Certain people being unwilling to take any sort of criticism and improve their play, especially these days when the game has never been more accessible. Instead the moment they encounter any content that requires a bit of effort they start crying for nerfs. See Steps of Faith, Final Steps, Shinryu (on SB launch), or Orbonne.

That's a problem faced by all multiplayer games and nothing SquareEnix or any other company does will solve that problem.

That's a problem only those who can't take criticism can fix.

I don't think Trusts were put in to solve that problem.

They were likely put in to help players who play during off peak times get through the MSQ or those who play DPS avoid long queue times as well.

[Kuro_Matsu]

I honestly wouldn't mind having trusts for story mode trials. I think Memoria Misera showed that it could work just fine and I think it was actually a testing bed for it. I'm betting we will see trusts for trials next expansion.

This. It's possible they may start further testing 8-man Trusts MSQ trials. I actually wouldn't mind this. It was a nice touch seeing the NPCs react to things in their own way, and you get to see (some) mechanics completed as well. Definitely helps my anxiety going through one slow run with Trusts, then transitioning to playing with other PCs.

And for those people thinking they'll add it to EXs, Savage, and Ultimate. Yeah, fat chance. Those are made to be cleared by real PCs, not AI. And I would say it would only become a thing well after the game is on it's last life-line; similar to how FFXI has cute little NPCs to help you through content.

[WoW]

We should get Trusts in Ultimate as well

We should get trusts irl as well.

[linayar]

You misunderstand. Those raids people used to solo are not lvling content at all. They were the endgame of previous expansions. They're not going back to solo group content they skipped in the lvling experience because it's not content used for or intended to be for xp gain. It never was. There aren't even roulettes you can use to do these old raids. They are completely irrelevant when it comes to xp gain. It's just like how savage and ex difficulty content in FFXIV isn't used to gain xp...

I understand all of that, but it doesn't change what I said because...

...So yea while WoW does let you get to max lvl with zero group content, the solo content it has in general is very lacking when compared to FFXIV.

... I wasn't really comparing the two games. My point is simply to use an example of a popular MMORPG to show how "mmos" don't necessarily have to encourage teamplay anymore. It doesn't mean that the game doesn't have group content, but if you want to play it solo, you can very well do so.

With that said, I will say something about this part:

[*]It is very rare for WoW to introduce max lvl story content that isn't somehow connected to gearing up for endgame, whereas this is common in FFXIV.

I would disagree with that statement.

Max level story content includes:

Max-level MSQ - includes mandatory dungeons and trials, requires gearing up for endgame and grouping up (outside of TRUST) until you can solo them in future expansions.

Alliance raid story quest - includes mandatory raids, requires gearing up for endgame and grouping up, even just to enter the instances in future expansions.

Trial series story quest - includes mandatory trials, requires gearing up for endgame and grouping up until you can solo them in future expansions.

Regular raid story quest - includes mandatory raids, requires gearing up for endgame and grouping up until you can solo them in future expansions.

Relic weapon story quest - may or may not require gearing, but definitely encourages grouping up for at least parts of them.

Those are, I think, the main max level story quests in FFXIV. Other side max level story quests may or may not require grouping up or gearing.

With WoW, it's important to note that dungeons and raids are not always required to continue the story. Or they may be required at the beginning, but then become optional later in the same expansion. So the only gearing required for endgame for story purposes is to deal with the scaling done to the open world enemies or specific quest-related enemies.

[Penthea]

... I wasn't really comparing the two games.

Really? You were the one who brought up WoW. Unless there's a different game that is the supposed most popular mmo on the market you're referring to that I don't know about.

I would disagree with that statement.

Max level story content includes:

Max-level MSQ - includes mandatory dungeons and trials, requires gearing up for endgame and grouping up (outside of TRUST) until you can solo them in future expansions.

Alliance raid story quest - includes mandatory raids, requires gearing up for endgame and grouping up, even just to enter the instances in future expansions.

Trial series story quest - includes mandatory trials, requires gearing up for endgame and grouping up until you can solo them in future expansions.

Regular raid story quest - includes mandatory raids, requires gearing up for endgame and grouping up until you can solo them in future expansions.

Relic weapon story quest - may or may not require gearing, but definitely encourages grouping up for at least parts of them.

I didn't say that FFXIV doesn't have a lot of max lvl quests tied to pve progression I said that unlike WoW FFXIV frequently give max lvl quests that are not tied to it. WoW rarely gives max lvl quest content that isn't tied to pve progression. Don't confuse "frequently gives quests unattached to max lvl pve progression" for "gives mostly only quests unattached to max lvl pve progression" because they are not the same thing. I didn't say what you think I said.

Hildibrand, the quests that are chained to role quests, Doman Enclave and the Scholasticate quest line to name some examples of max lvl quests that are not attached to pve progression. WoW very rarely offers quests like this, FFXIV has in every expansion.

EDIT: just want to add in case anyone is confused, I support Trusts being expanded to msq trials, I just don't think it's going to happen soon. I think we would sooner see the Trusts being expanded to the rest of the 4 man content first considering it already works fine for 4 man content and there are significantly more of those to do than trials. And well we have no idea if SE even fancy the idea of adding Trusts to anything above 4 man, maybe we will see some comment about it in May.