Revelations from Patch 5.5 (Part 1)

[KizuyaKatogami]

Just wanna say, in JRPG's "Supposedly benevolent god is actually super evil" isn't really a fresh or unique direction, its actually incredibly common.

And I think people taking "sides" between the two based on the idea that one has to be malevolent is sorta missing the point. They were both created to save the planet. The definition about what "saving" it meant was just different between there summoners.

I think the actual direction there story is heading isn't "This one is the baddie go kill it" its, that the fact that two being both born of good intentions ended up being diametrically opposed not out of any choice of there own but out of the specific ways in which they were created.

It's a tragedy, not a conspiracy where one is gonna end up the Big Bad.

If anything I imagine Endwalker ends with both of them sacrificing themselves for the star to help end the "Sound" because despite all there differences they still have the same fundamental goal.

Basically two imperfect but not evil gods is wayyyy more compelling to me then just flipping a switch and saying "Haha good god bad......again."

I agree, and again like the devs have stated, a lot of it has to do with the summoners, not so much the primals themselves. I semi-disagree with them having the same goals(the primals i mean) because Zodiark's goal was salvation while Hydaelyns was merely keeping Zodiark in check.

[Slatersev]

I agree, and again like the devs have stated, a lot of it has to do with the summoners, not so much the primals themselves. I semi-disagree with them having the same goals(the primals i mean) because Zodiark's goal was salvation while Hydaelyns was merely keeping Zodiark in check.

Oh yes, but Hyd's keeping him in check was to protect the new mortal life that had arisen.

She was the Mortal races salvation, while Zodiark was salvation for the planet/Ancients.

Which means if ever there was a threat that arose against both of those things at the same time, well...

[Lauront]

Just wanna say, in JRPG's "Supposedly benevolent god is actually super evil" isn't really a fresh or unique direction, its actually incredibly common.

And I think people taking "sides" between the two based on the idea that one has to be malevolent is sorta missing the point. They were both created to save the planet. The definition about what "saving" it meant was just different between there summoners.

I think the actual direction there story is heading isn't "This one is the baddie go kill it" its, that the fact that two being both born of good intentions ended up being diametrically opposed not out of any choice of there own but out of the specific ways in which they were created.

It's a tragedy, not a conspiracy where one is gonna end up the Big Bad.

If anything I imagine Endwalker ends with both of them sacrificing themselves for the star to help end the "Sound" because despite all there differences they still have the same fundamental goal.

Basically two imperfect but not evil gods is wayyyy more compelling to me then just flipping a switch and saying "Haha good god bad......again."

I tend to agree, I believe the tragic element to it is the major theme here.

[Vyrerus]

We know that Hydaelyn has tempered before. The cave paintings portraying her and Zodiark had smaller figures underneath them, sporting matching colors. We could get obtuse about it, and say that merely represented their factions, but I doubt that the Hydaelyn faction figured out how to summon a primal that doesn't temper on summoning, using the same summoning technique as the Convocation.

A line of thought I had, after Y'shtola and Krile aired their theory

At the end of 2.0 we see a flash of the crystals that represent the Source and the Shards. At first they are blue and bright, but then there is a flash, and they all turn purple and dark. Every other time we've seen them, they're portrayed in the blue. Looking back at that scene now, it seems to me as though the reverse could also be true. That is to say, we've never heard Zodiark talk to anyone. We assume this is because he is Sundered. and now with SHB, we also assume this is because he could be mindless from missing his heart. However, could it be that Hydaelyn can't take the time to talk to us, because she has to work actively to keep him mute/asleep? I for one, want to know, why is it that Hydaelyn can talk to everyone along all of the Shards and Source, but Zodiark never could.

[Vyrerus]

Also I don't know if it was mentioned yet, but...

I went to talk to J'moldva and uhh... the other miqote in Rhalgr's Reach. J'moldva had high praise for Arenvald, but she also says that the prognosis for his survival doesn't look good. OTL

[EirolOcarrol]

The thing is though,

It's suspicious Azem didn't respond to their overtures. So that makes it a bit doubtful. The other thing is, people are so quick to assume something is wrong with Zodiark but, what about Hydaelyn then who is also in the same classification. If Zodiark's summoning was deemed a bad idea and if he was causing problems, why would Venat's faction then summon another primal like him who also tempers? Yes they were tempered but you have to keep in mind Zodiark's purpose and also the way the tempering works.

Posts like this are so depressing, and everything I feared at the saddening revelation in Shadowbringers.

The community is turning against Hydaelyn because she's a Primal and treating her with suspicion. I so much miss the days when Hydaelyn was assumed to be benevolent and Holy.

I basically dealt with the sad and disturbing news by accepting that summoning Primals may not necessarily be a bad thing. And that Primals themselves could be a force for good, or rather that not all Primals were bad.
Perhaps our original mission and outset, being a Primal slayer, was a flawed one. As not all Primals are a negative or malevolent force. I want to believe that Hydaelyn is a good Primal, and will believe so until proven otherwise.

Hydaelyn is a comforting character for me, and maybe it's illogical. But I want to hold onto hope that one of my favourite character is not secretly a villain.

[Rannie]

snip

Actually it was conceived before Elidibus came back

That's the sort of person Elidibus was; eager to fulfill his duty, he also respected and admired the Convocation more than any other. To many of us, he was as a younger brother of sorts. And when it became clear that he was the most suitable candidate for Zodiark's heart, it mattered not how strong our resolve... There was none among us who did not waver.

Could there have been any greater shock, then, than our subsequent reunion?

This was soon after Zodiark became the will of the star, and our Final Days were averted. The people were divided, unable to decide what to do with the future that now stretched out before them. Many wished to trade the new life which had sprung forth to reclaim those lost in sacrifice to Zodiark. No small number, however, insisted that the fate of our world should be entrusted to those selfsame freshly minted souls. All were at our wits' end.

At once, we saw it, shimmering. It poured out of Zodiark's breast, and resolved into the shape of a man. As he looked us over─mouths agape, no doubt─he gave what passed for an earnest smile.


"Fear...not... You will make...the right choice. And I will see it through."

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../sidestory_07/

He came back as he himself said so to reconcile the two arguing factions as it was part of his job as Elidibus.

[Kesey]

Oh yes, but Hyd's keeping him in check was to protect the new mortal life that had arisen.

She was the Mortal races salvation, while Zodiark was salvation for the planet/Ancients.

Which means if ever there was a threat that arose against both of those things at the same time, well...

To be fair, Hydaelyn's purpose stated by Venat and followers is that Zodiark only extends the time till the end days and Hydaelyn needs to be summoned as a permeant solution to the end days. They then go on to show that Venat has to specifically be the heart to get the result they want. Granted we need more of a justification from Venat and company, but this doesn't necessary prove that Hydaelyn's only purpose is to keep Zodiark in check but more her purpose is to stop the end of the world.

Furthermore, the cave paintings from Shadowbringers at the end of Qitana Ravel also show that we are missing an event because there is a panel where Hydaelyn and Zodiark are just together--like they were balanced--then the next panel follows to their fight. If we are to assume that Hydaelyn was summoned for the only purpose of sundering Zodiark then why would this panel be here?

Lastly, there is another panel in Rak'tika Greatwood in the first set of cave paintings looked at by the WOL and Y'shtola near the Children of the Everlasting Dark. Three panels there show Ardbert and party saving the first, the rise of the Ronkan Empire, and another event involving a bright light or a crystal--which may also depict something else involving Hydaelyn.

[EirolOcarrol]

hmmm, id have to partially disagree.

What we learned in 5.2 about her being on auto-pilot is very fishy, but beyond that theres been telling signs. From the heavensward art that portrayed Minfilia as chained to Hydaelyn to Ardbert questioning if he was tempered/if she was able to temper but all of a sudden just dropping the sbject. Now i dont think its 100% Hydaelyn, she is but a primal. A lot of the fault lies in Venat(her heart). However, i dont think something that was able to cause such a destructive act like the Sundering is very good.

I not sure how you thought we were in agreement. When I was talking about how I was saddened that people were turning against and doubting

Hydaelyn

, I was talking about people such as yourself.

I personally in the camp of people think that Hydaelyn and Venat are good and heroic. And that we don't know the full story. Or, at the very least, am strongly holding on to hope.

[Ceridwenae]

TeN ChaRacTeRS

Hydaelyn is not a villain.(Ceridwen's Edit!)

Summoning primals is bad for the land in general and neither Hydy or Zodiark should've been summoned; regardless of where their intentions fall on the benevolence scale, another solution would've been better. I think Azem knew this, or at least suspected it; perhaps from getting out and about and seeing how things are they were able to discern something that gave rise to their suspicion.

Frankly, H & Z are a result of a group of people failing in their overall duty by not doing due diligence in a timely fashion. Pretty sure if both H & Z want to save the world(star)/its peoples, they both would realise how destabilising they themselves are. Perhaps that's why Hydy's touch is incredibly light (no pun). She still has a directive to protect the inhabitants of the star and all the shards thereof, but knows she's also incredibly bad for it at the same time, and yet still she can't self-delete (if she can do that at all) because the safety of the star is still not assured. I imagine that to be torturous - to love your "kids", but know you're killing them by simply existing, but can't delete self because of others trying to kill your kids. A hibernation of sorts may be all she can do whilst fighting her directives, with the bare minimum to ensure kid safety. I think Zodiark would likely be of a similar bent. Or rather, I personally choose to believe he could easily be as benevolent as she, just with different directives and unfortunate (to say the least) consequences to those who summoned him and all who believed in them. My jury is still out on how much tempering Hydy does, but I find it difficult to believe she doesn't do it. I can't be comfortable with that. Any messing with free will for any reason isn't something I can acquiesce to.

My hope is we can somehow unite H & Z in a concordance without negative repercussions - I know tempering can effectively be cured at this point, but these two are the big ones, so to speak. Either reunite them in peaceful accordance, thus retaining a protection for the future, or dispense with both of them - which they would agree to, but still fight against, per programming. I'd really rather the former because all the death is just too much; I'd rather use words and diplomacy much more often, but I don't think that'd work here. I will be preparing cake and grief counselling in advance regardless. Seems prudent.

So to conclude, I don't think either H or Z are villains in and of themselves, and it's all a horrible mess and there will be cake. And I mean, I will legitimately bake a cake for the expansion finale. My whole family's going to need it.

Whatever way it pans out, it's ultimately a caution in sitting by and thinking things don't truly matter if they happen somewhere else to someone else, then becoming overwrought with fear when the error is realised.