Thread: Revelations from Patch 5.5 (Part 1)

Originally Posted by Lauront

Yes, but I am not saying that the intention was to cause a flood or that it was the will of the blessing - although there remain many questions around all that. My point is that it was the medium required for the Ascians' plan to work as it did, and enable the naive champions to spread the light, and it is that spread of the energy (light) which I am talking about.


The point here is that through gaining these Blessings, they become the harbingers of light required for their plan to work. The Blessing, even if it is not a form of tempering, certainly functions similarly in line with it in that singular respect: expanding the primal's element/energy.

I can see your point and maybe you are right but imo Mitron said in the Eden storyline that it was their action on the 13th that brought the imbalance especially on the first shard which is confirmed by her words that you posted. I agree that Ardbert and his friends were used to create more light but if I understand Mitrons words correctly he was the one releasing all the saved up light when he was turned into the first sin eater. Its sound for me like that was probably a lot of the Light that was created by the imbalance (however that is somehow possible) and Ardbert and his friends Light was only the tipping point it needed to bring it further towards a flood.

She says that "Primordial forces will strive to achieve equilibrium" so I guess no matter what the first was always much more turned towards the light. Which begs the question on what will happen with the first in the future? The 13th shard is still in a bad shape....if these strange forces still stive to equilibirium wouldnt they again turn the first towards the light?

It was still worthwhile

to remove her tempering just on the merits of putting her soul back to normal but yeah, seems it may not have been neccisary to fight Lunar Bahamut.

Musing on the towers more...

I think I'd honestly love if it turns out that they're actually part of a gigantic super primal that embodies Garlemald's doctrine of conquest through power (Which would explain both how they seemingly appeared out of nowhere as well as their disturbingly organic interiors).

Such an entity would be more akin to a force of nature then a proper god as it would basically be a blank slate that's driven purely by its purpose for creation, bereft of the personality primals normally are given from their worshippers.

Perhaps Zodiark isn't even the ultimate goal of Zenos and Fandaniel anymore and he's simply a means to a greater (And worse) end; to be used as fuel for a new primal.

On Hydaelyn:

I guess it ties in well with what I stated earlier in regards to Tempering. There's a handful of posters who seem to have convinced themselves that Hydaelyn could not possibly be anything other than the 'Benevolent Mother' that they choose to view Hydaelyn as even after Hydaelyn has been revealed to be a Primal. It could go either way, though I don't think it'd be a mistake or 'bad storytelling' for Hydaelyn to turn out to essentially be a threat, either directly or indirectly.

At the end of the day, Hydaelyn is the reason why the original world ended up being Sundered. She needs to answer for that and Hydaelyn's desire to try and eliminate the Ascians and prevent the truth of the world from coming to light is very much at odds with the promise made to Emet-Selch in regards to remembering his people and honouring what once was.

As many here are quick to remind everybody, FFXIV is a classic JRPG that fully embraces some pretty stereotypical tropes. With that in mind, it may very well choose to go in the direction where the supposedly 'benevolent' deity is anything but. Putting aside the simple fact that many Hydaelyn enthusiasts were falsely making Zodiark out to be some sort of blood god upon the reveal of Amaurot, if the intention is for expectations to be subverted then as far as I'm concerned it'd be inherently more interesting for Zodiark to turn out to be the truly benevolent figure out of the two Elder Primals.

We'll see how things go, but as ever I urge everybody to keep an open mind!

Originally Posted by Theodric

On Hydaelyn:

I guess it ties in well with what I stated earlier in regards to Tempering. There's a handful of posters who seem to have convinced themselves that Hydaelyn could not possibly be anything other than the 'Benevolent Mother' that they choose to view Hydaelyn as even after Hydaelyn has been revealed to be a Primal. It could go either way, though I don't think it'd be a mistake or 'bad storytelling' for Hydaelyn to turn out to essentially be a threat, either directly or indirectly.

At the end of the day, Hydaelyn is the reason why the original world ended up being Sundered. She needs to answer for that and Hydaelyn's desire to try and eliminate the Ascians and prevent the truth of the world from coming to light is very much at odds with the promise made to Emet-Selch in regards to remembering his people and honouring what once was.

As many here are quick to remind everybody, FFXIV is a classic JRPG that fully embraces some pretty stereotypical tropes. With that in mind, it may very well choose to go in the direction where the supposedly 'benevolent' deity is anything but. Putting aside the simple fact that many Hydaelyn enthusiasts were falsely making Zodiark out to be some sort of blood god upon the reveal of Amaurot, if the intention is for expectations to be subverted then as far as I'm concerned it'd be inherently more interesting for Zodiark to turn out to be the truly benevolent figure out of the two Elder Primals.

We'll see how things go, but as ever I urge everybody to keep an open mind!

On Zodiark:

I have a feeling Zodiark, should it have a mind of its own, has been heavily conflicted from the start. It's very likely it wanted the new life to grow and be happy, but also wanted the same for the old life. It could just have an innocent mindset of "I just want to save everybody and for them to be happy!" Considering we know that Elidibus was a child at the time of his sacrifice, if his mind was made the template for Zodiark's personality as a primal...then it's likely a very innocent tragic figure. This may change how we view Hydaelyn...or may be part of what influenced her to Sunder instead. If Zodiark could not control its own power or was causing issues with the planet's balance without realizing it (again, this goes if it has an innocent mind), then the Sundering may also have been an act to protect Zodiark from hurting itself. Though this is all Wild Mass Guessing, it gives some serious food for thought. But we'll find out for certain at 5.55 at the earliest on her mindset for it.

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

On Zodiark:

I have a feeling Zodiark, should it have a mind of its own, has been heavily conflicted from the start. It's very likely it wanted the new life to grow and be happy, but also wanted the same for the old life. It could just have an innocent mindset of "I just want to save everybody and for them to be happy!" Considering we know that Elidibus was a child at the time of his sacrifice, if his mind was made the template for Zodiark's personality as a primal...then it's likely a very innocent tragic figure. This may change how we view Hydaelyn...or may be part of what influenced her to Sunder instead. If Zodiark could not control its own power or was causing issues with the planet's balance without realizing it (again, this goes if it has an innocent mind), then the Sundering may also have been an act to protect Zodiark from hurting itself. Though this is all Wild Mass Guessing, it gives some serious food for thought. But we'll find out for certain at 5.55 at the earliest on her mindset for it.

Just a correction.

Elidibus was NOT a child. So many people get this wrong even though they've explained it. Age-wise he was basically around Graha's age(early twenties). They dont mention anything about Zodiark causing issues with the planet's balance. That's something the Ancients wouldve 100% been aware of.

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Just a correction.

Elidibus was NOT a child. So many people get this wrong even though they've explained it. Age-wise he was basically around Graha's age(early twenties). They dont mention anything about Zodiark causing issues with the planet's balance. That's something the Ancients wouldve 100% been aware of.

That's where I beg to differ.

The Ancients, at least in Amaurot, relied so heavily on the Convocation to make decisions that they seemed to go with whatever they decided, and the Convocation were Tempered after summoning Zodiark. They weren't going to believe their own god was causing problems, and anybody following them would think their logic sound, since they WERE the brightest of them all.

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

That's where I beg to differ.

The Ancients, at least in Amaurot, relied so heavily on the Convocation to make decisions that they seemed to go with whatever they decided, and the Convocation were Tempered after summoning Zodiark. They weren't going to believe their own god was causing problems, and anybody following them would think their logic sound, since they WERE the brightest of them all.

The thing is though,

It's suspicious Azem didn't respond to their overtures. So that makes it a bit doubtful. The other thing is, people are so quick to assume something is wrong with Zodiark but, what about Hydaelyn then who is also in the same classification. If Zodiark's summoning was deemed a bad idea and if he was causing problems, why would Venat's faction then summon another primal like him who also tempers? Yes they were tempered but you have to keep in mind Zodiark's purpose and also the way the tempering works.

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

On Zodiark:

I have a feeling Zodiark, should it have a mind of its own, has been heavily conflicted from the start. It's very likely it wanted the new life to grow and be happy, but also wanted the same for the old life. It could just have an innocent mindset of "I just want to save everybody and for them to be happy!" Considering we know that Elidibus was a child at the time of his sacrifice, if his mind was made the template for Zodiark's personality as a primal...then it's likely a very innocent tragic figure. This may change how we view Hydaelyn...or may be part of what influenced her to Sunder instead. If Zodiark could not control its own power or was causing issues with the planet's balance without realizing it (again, this goes if it has an innocent mind), then the Sundering may also have been an act to protect Zodiark from hurting itself. Though this is all Wild Mass Guessing, it gives some serious food for thought. But we'll find out for certain at 5.55 at the earliest on her mindset for it.

Yeah, I've been thinking something similar

On Zodiark

Friendly reminder that we've never gotten Zodiark's perspective on the situation. We don't know if he would actually want to go along with the Ascian's plans and sacrifice the inhabitants of the planet.

Zodiark was summoned to save the planet. It was the ASCIANS who came up with the idea that they were going to sacrifice the new life, but we have no indication that they told Zodiark about this or if he was in on the plan. All we know is that Zodiark found out that there was a dispute, and regurgitated Elidibus or created a projection/familiar based on Elidibus and sent this new Elidibus to go find out what was up and resolve it. Then, what happened next as far as Zodiark as aware, a second Primal came out of nowhere and stomped him and shattered him into 14 pieces. He has been unconscious ever since.

The new Elidibus came to share the same feelings as the other Ascians, as he hung out with the surviving Amaurotians, escaped the Sundering, and felt a longing for them, but this new Elidibus is a separate individual from the being known as Zodiark.

If Zodiark were to be revived during Endwalker (which seems to be the case, given the Amano art of Hydaelyn vs Zodiark, but that might be representative of their past fight), I'd imagine that Zodiark would be reflexively hostile towards Hydaelyn at first for beating him up, but I don't think he'd be going after the inhabitants of the planet trying to kill them. In fact, maybe he'd be horrified if the Scions or Hydaelyn sat him down and told them what the Ascians were planning and what they had done. Then again, Zodiark might not ever be revived; his power might just be absorbed by Zenos, or he might get controlled by Zenos.