ranger job

[Cetek14]

IMO the three songs it cycles between that each give different buffs and mechanics makes it feel pretty bard like.

This is huge problem with mixing 2 jobs. For me its Bard, and I don't like it in the long run because its not Archer. While other people will say its Archer, and they not like it because its not 100% Bard.
The same problem with Machinist. Gunners are not satisfied, while Machinist fans claim it still needs more machinery.

[Shougun]

Would have liked to see Bard and 'Ranger' split long ago, back when we were in the early days, but I think without massive changes at this point, and the job being well liked by those who main it, that it's a bit dangerous and maybe too late to do. Also it doesn't help we don't have an actual support role, which makes support jobs have to do a funky sort of splits. The dance partner concept works well because it targets one person; however, group aoe support that is strongly biased into one job and isn't in a dedicated role slot could have some dangerous balance implications.

Not a problem if there was an actual support role (at least on balance between jobs, not to discuss if it would affect queue times or require redesign of some combat content). Not saying others have to agree but at least personally I've let Ranger rest in Bard's arms, Ranger is dead and alive. Like Thief in Rogue lol. I understand that not being a pleasing answer for those who are enthralled to the idea of Ranger, Thief, or wanting Ninja / Bard to be separated further - so like I said not saying my opinion is the end all just my own "eh, it's fine it's kind of there I guess". Certainly in my head Bard would be far more musical, music damage songs, music support songs, music heal, pretty much nothing related to bows XD. Occasionally Yoshida just likes to try something different, sometimes it's great, sometimes it's not- it's a cool trait and requires a bit of courage and stubbornness* which is probably overall good to prevent being derailed often by others, but occasionally is like "NooooOoo" .. Like when they made ARR (2.0) Summoner so soft spoken and subtle compared to it's compatriots (and even compared to other magic pet class MMOs) I was pretty "Aww what the Thal". *In defense, things can change, not infinitely stubborn at least and there are devs out there who are lol, but definitely likes to see things play out a bit first haha (not meaning as an insult, when you try something new and it works it's great, sometimes things need to settle a little, just if something is different than expected and you hate it.. that of course is where you're like "that is.. not great.. and we're going to be here a while to figure out what is. . " ).

At one point they tried to give Bard much stronger Ranger aspects, like bow mage I'm certain was that- but in general people seem to really want the music side to shine. Which isn't that weird given the name of the job lol. I might suggest they keep tweaking the job when it hits 'Bard' with ideas like passives mixing up existing Archer skills or adding a bit more musical theme (even if it's still not as support focused as one might think, like adding more musical vibes to some animations, musical inspired mechanics, perhaps like applying stacks of discord on your potency attacks that will occasionally debuff the enemy).

As for it's own concept, and on the OP point..

I MASSIVELY prefer Reaper like job over Ranger. Like, by miles and malms, many malms. Moons of malms. Without comparison of malms. Lol. . (Obviously in this situation I'm enthralled by dark theme'd jobs, actually dark theme'd not to say black mage which has some trappings of it but is honestly mostly just a regular standard wizard of RPGs, so more learning towards Dark Knight but you know.. "ANOTHER!", and different role :P).

[ForteNightshade]

IMO the three songs it cycles between that each give different buffs and mechanics makes it feel pretty bard like.

Except those songs only interact with your party is an arbitrary and passive way. When people say "it's a Bard in name only," they're speaking towards all the abilities gutted throughout Heavensward and Stormblood that emphasised its support nature. Look at what Shadowbringers offered: all various archer related abilities (Burst Shot, Shadowbite and Apex Arrow). The aforementioned song buffs only came every a full year of begging. And as mentioned, the player has no direct interaction with them. You're going to perform your rotation in the same sequence 99% of the time, thus the buffs may as well not exist.

Bard right now is basically an Archer with some songs. That's why it went from the most popular DPS in Stormblood to the least in Shadowbringers. To say people aren't satisficed is a massive understatement. Perhaps the only job with less fanfare this expansion is the much maligned Monk.

This is huge problem with mixing 2 jobs. For me its Bard, and I don't like it in the long run because its not Archer. While other people will say its Archer, and they not like it because its not 100% Bard.
The same problem with Machinist. Gunners are not satisfied, while Machinist fans claim it still needs more machinery.

Correction: It's only a huge problem with the team designing them lack creativity. Stormblood Bard married the hybrid nature near perfectly. It only suffers now because, for whatever reason, the dev team convinced themselves they can't have two support jobs in one role. So they shoehorned Bard into something it was never intended to be. Ironically, it's that same mentality that resulted in Bowmage, where they tried to force a design made for Machinist onto Bard without thinking how it might impact the job.

They desperately need some fresh perspectives going forward because a lot of jobs feel like they've simply run out of ideas.

[ItMe]

Ironically, it's that same mentality that resulted in Bowmage, where they tried to force a design made for Machinist onto Bard without thinking how it might impact the job.

Correction: them giving the ranged classes cast bars wasn't a MCH design, it was another attempt at addressing the DPS tax on ranged classes.

[Stormfur]

I'd be alright with them giving rangers the bow and letting bard use music as a weapon entirely. Same with machinist for the gadgets and corsair for the guns.

[Bright-Flower]

Correction: them giving the ranged classes cast bars wasn't a MCH design, it was another attempt at addressing the DPS tax on ranged classes.

I think it just happened to work a bit better for MCH because in HW MCH was designed with the idea in mind, where as it was more slapped onto Bard at the same time.

[Jirah]

I'd be alright with them giving rangers the bow and letting bard use music as a weapon entirely. Same with machinist for the gadgets and corsair for the guns.

This is a utter waste of job potential and both jobs in question have plenty of space to fill there desires for there respected fantasies. Sick of hearing about how Bard isnt bard and machinist needs no gun and make a separate job for. Eventually they wont be adding anymore jobs and I dont want these previous job slots to be filled with twins

[Jirah]

Correction: them giving the ranged classes cast bars wasn't a MCH design, it was another attempt at addressing the DPS tax on ranged classes.

more of a misconception unless it came from the devs themselves. Have they even said the word DPS tax before?

[ItMe]

more of a misconception unless it came from the devs themselves. Have they even said the word DPS tax before?

The devs have spoken about how ranged characters being able to freely move and attack at all times with nothing much to interrupt them means they have to have lower damage than a class that has a high damage output that is frequently interrupted.
Giving them cast bars was their way to bring them in line with the other jobs conceptually, but their feedback said players enjoyed the freedom from ranged DPS more so they undid it.
So, yes.
But the words "dps tax" specifically?
No. That is a user name for the concept.

[Savagelf]

i been of mind set that bard should have bow an a harp and harp should an off-hand weapon. as should machinist have his gun and tool box and these add effect to ability the these two jobs. as i am mind ranger should crossbow and a bolt quiver as well. why do i want hawk i think SE need get good concept for pet jobs. i like machinist but i like it before they remove turret effects make turret limit on time frame

picture the harp give bonus effect and tool box for machinist aswell. we would have include dancer through i think dancer weapons should be split into main hand and offhand. it same thing i feel about ninja i think dagger could be made into two weapons

ranger should have crossbow because it cool weapon picture a Miq'ate weild a hand cross bow