Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

You’re “losing” me because you aren’t listening to anyone and keep just going “but the LORE” over and over even after people keep giving you perfectly good explanations for why the existing lore is a non-issue. You can talk down to me all you want, but what it boils down to is you’re grasping at straws to try justify why you personally don’t want the viera in the game.

I have, as have several others, given you multiple reasons why I think that XIV is a great place for them to be revealed and why I am not worried about them dropping the ball on sufficient lore for them. You keep repeating that you want the lore expanded and that’s your only concern. I am asking you why that is a concern in the first place, when each race added to the game has pretty substantial lore that is continuously expanded upon as we move through the world. They’ve given no indication that they will simply plop down male viera and shrug their shoulders, yet you’re in here acting like that’s what people are asking for or what they’d do and trying to pass it off as a legitimate reason to not want them in the game.

Ive listened to everyone who debates me and has responded to me. Dont act like because I haven't cow-towed to your responses that it means Im ignoring you. That right there deliberately misinterprets me and my point. ""I personally dont think they should be in the game, but Im willing to accept it if done right, and not lazily
Im not seeking any amount of justification to NOT be included, Id love a decent Justification TO include them.
Is this still lost on you somehow? Despite how clear Ive tried to be about that in my many responses?

If you have no worry about Male Viera being lazily added in, then your insistence to fight me over saying "I just dont want it to be lazy" makes no sense at all.
I dont need to give a reason why I think they would, all I said is, I hope they don't

[BunniEclair]

Ive listened to everyone who debates me and has responded to me. Dont act like because I haven't cow-towed to your responses that it means Im ignoring you. That right there deliberately misinterprets me and my point. ""I personally dont think they should be in the game, but Im willing to accept it if done right, and not lazily
Im not seeking any amount of justification to NOT be included, Id love a decent Justification TO include them.
Is this still lost on you somehow? Despite how clear Ive tried to be about that in my many responses?

If you have no worry about Male Viera being lazily added in, then your insistence to fight me over saying "I just dont want it to be lazy" makes no sense at all.
I dont need to give a reason why I think they would, all I said is, I hope they don't

I don’t think you’re ignoring me. I think you’re being stubborn and condescending to me and everyone else without actually listening to anybody.
You seem to be the one who is lost, so I’ll direct you to the comment that started the “debate”, if you can even call it that.

FFXIV is not the game for this. It CAN still happen, but it would just make way more sense for their own games in Ivalice to expand on their own lore and show off Male Viera, instead of it being in an MMO that likely wont give it any real attention outside of...well, they are just here now, people wanted it, why they waited till now to show up...whatever...warrior of light is the exception...blahblah..

You outright said you don’t think that XIV is the place for this. I have outlined why it is. So did several others. You claimed that the lore was an obstacle. I outlined why it isn’t. So have several others. That is the conversation we are having. Up to speed now?

As for justification to include them, it’s not that deep. People want them, and the lore that currently exists for them both in XIV and outside of it allows for it, if for no other reason than there’s barely any lore to begin with. Why people want them varies from “I just like bunnies” to “I love ff12 and want to see them” and beyond. Ultimately, it’s a game. Choices to do something really can be as simple as “it would be enjoyable and doesn’t hurt anything”.

Just say you’re mad that Hrothgar didn’t get finished and go, man.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

I don’t think you’re ignoring me. I think you’re being stubborn and condescending to me and everyone else without actually listening to anybody.
You seem to be the one who is lost, so I’ll direct you to the comment that started the “debate”, if you can even call it that.

Argument...Debate...Conversation...I guess in a way they are all the same thing.
I dont know why you'd feel like Im being condescending towards you, but whatever thats not our topic of conversation atm

You outright said you don’t think that XIV is the place for this. I have outlined why it is. So did several others. You claimed that the lore was an obstacle. I outlined why it isn’t. So have several others. That is the conversation we are having. Up to speed now?

As for justification to include them, it’s not that deep. People want them, and the lore that currently exists for them both in XIV and outside of it allows for it, if for no other reason than there’s barely any lore to begin with. Why people want them varies from “I just like bunnies” to “I love ff12 and want to see them” and beyond. Ultimately, it’s a game. Choices to do something really can be as simple as “it would be enjoyable and doesn’t hurt anything”.

And I still stand by that, my stance has not changed. However because I said that, you seem to forget my points that I still believe there are things they could do that would make me support or even enjoy Male Viera being put into the game. The main point I have been nothing but consistent on; is I dont want their inclusion to be lazy.
Somehow me saying that causes all of this....debate lol, when at the end of the day I know we all agree that it comes down to the devs. Nothing anybody says, even me and my personal feelings mean anything. If they chose to put them in, if they chose to expand on the lore and whatnot..thats up to them. Not me, or anyone.
My take and wishes could fall on deaf ears and not remotely happen...what am I gonna do about it?
Until it happens or we get a decisive answer, Im just sharing my thoughts and opinions, just like you and everybody else.

Just say you’re mad that Hrothgar didn’t get finished and go, man.

No.
I wont, Because that was never my point

[reivaxe]

I don’t understand why suddenly bunny ears is where we are like “oh god they just want to lewd them!!!”. In fact I don’t get the weird obsession with a subset of players that viera are somehow more ERP bait than any other race.

It's because bunnies are seen as a pop-culture symbol for sexualized females.
Be it characters like Lola Bunny, "Jessica Rabbit" (Not actually a rabbit, but it is very much in her name) or the Play Boy Bunnies. Just look at the Lola Bunny drama when the new movie made her look like ... Slappy in a promo shot. (Fun fact, Lola was sexualized in SJ for a number of reasons but 1 was because of the times. She dressed inline with how many musical artist dressed who in turn dressed that way because the 90s were a time when girls had to learn to embrace their sexuality. For many young people this acted as a reinforcement of the connection between "bunnies" and sexy women)

It's also why some number of Viera male hopefuls cried "HOMOPHOBIC!" when Hrothgar were revealed instead of bunny bois (which is funny given how much Hrothgar appeal to the gay furry Bara scene). Because bunnies are seen a fem-sex symbol and many feel their desires for w/e male body type they find attractive would be met with an attempt to make a male fem-sex symbol.

I think it's safe to say it's true. To quote. "fetishizing" bunny boys, I think is a huge reason for it. It can be said, that is probably one of the reasons some of the devs may have been uncomfortable with making bunny suits for male characters. For that matter, where's the same fervor for female hrothgar? I think the people who want these races to be 'complete', or to make the world feel 'complete', is much less so.

You shouldn't take this thread or the vocal desire for Male Viera as the "norm". Before Viera were announced they were the most requested single addition to the roster of races ... and they NEVER got threads of even close to this size. As seen on Reddit (a site that pretty much laughed Viera Male talk off of it after the community got tired of the constant whining 2 years ago) a "When are we getting Female Hrothgar" thread was met with 1.2k up votes just a few months ago. The desire is there, it's just normal for people who enjoy a game to not hyper focus on something that's not in it. The OF have cultivated a culture of "this is where you go to whine about something cause you think the devs read these posts" so that's why you see the fervor here for something a number of people feel personally attacked by but not THAT much whining about a furry female when people have to deal with the furry stigma.

[Lauront]

I think you see more people asking for male viera than female hrothgar for a couple reasons.

First, the fact is that traditionally attractive races tend to just be more popular in general. If you look at WoW for example, blood elves are by a good margin the most played race on the horde, and like the 2nd or so most played race in general. I don't know the statistics in FFXIV but I tend to see a lot more viera than hrothgar and would hazard a guess that viera are more played than hrothgar. Hence there are more viera fans that want the race completed than there are hrothgar players.

Second, viera had a pre existing fanbase that wanted them in the game, and were surprised to see males not added and instead given the Hrothgar curveball. Where as hrothgar, while drawing some inspiration from Ronso, are more unique from ffx ronso than FFXIV viera are from Ivalice viera aesthetically. Hrothgar are basically a new race taking some inspiration from an old one where Viera are a fan favorite race added to the game for, well, fanservice.

I think fans of both races likely want the other genders added at similar rates, but there are just more viera fans than there are hrothgar fans.

It's in the region of 2.5% for Hrothgar, and 7-8% for Viera. The figure for Viera females was originally around 12-13% from memory, but I think they were more acutely hit by the dearth of hairstyles and perhaps nostalgia. Their figures are still pretty respectable.

[Khalithar]

The fact people argue against this at all boggles my mind. We, the player base, should be demanding new races with every expansion. We should be demanding 4-5 new dungeons *every* patch, and we should be demanding a new job for *every* role for *every* expansion. People arguing against more content still shocks me.

[KizuyaKatogami]

The fact people argue against this at all boggles my mind. We, the player base, should be demanding new races with every expansion. We should be demanding 4-5 new dungeons *every* patch, and we should be demanding a new job for *every* role for *every* expansion. People arguing against more content still shocks me.

Small indie company plz understand.

Jokes aside i agree with you. I’ve brought up before much to the disdain of many people that it’s weird how much content ShB took away despite it making so much money. Comparing it to stormblood it’s like night and day. We really should be getting more each expansion with the more players and money they get but with shb we saw a downgrade in a majority of content. Unfortunately not a lot of people share this sentiment and expect you to just get spoonfed by the devs and not question anything.

[Theodric]

I think one of the weirder parts of this thread is the simple fact that some of the most vocal supporters for the addition of female hrothgar are coming here to point out why male viera supposedly can't be added.

Logically, the development team aren't going to add one of the missing genders and not the other. They'd get way too much backlash for taking that route. Far more than the what the announcement of the gender lock itself ended up bringing.

So it's all rather strange to me. Especially since I bet if people went to the female hrothgar thread to list reasons why they should not be added, it probably wouldn't be taken very well.

[BunniEclair]

And I still stand by that, my stance has not changed. However because I said that, you seem to forget my points that I still believe there are things they could do that would make me support or even enjoy Male Viera being put into the game. The main point I have been nothing but consistent on; is I dont want their inclusion to be lazy.
Somehow me saying that causes all of this....debate lol, when at the end of the day I know we all agree that it comes down to the devs. Nothing anybody says, even me and my personal feelings mean anything. If they chose to put them in, if they chose to expand on the lore and whatnot..thats up to them. Not me, or anyone.
My take and wishes could fall on deaf ears and not remotely happen...what am I gonna do about it?
Until it happens or we get a decisive answer, Im just sharing my thoughts and opinions, just like you and everybody else.

Are you...really surprised that coming into the “support male viera thread” and saying “I don’t think they should be added to the game” sparks debate...?

I really don’t think I can break it down any further for you why people took issue with your opinions and reasons for having them. Nobody took you to task over not wanting them to be lazy. You were asked why you think they’d suddenly be lazy with male viera enough to think that’s a valid reason to be concerned about their inclusion in the game. You also brought up that they’d have to take into account player characters, which they don’t. Do I really have to keep repeating your own points to you? It’s a pain on mobile.

You’re certainly entitled to share your opinion like anyone else here. Just please stop getting slack-jawed when people in a thread about wanting male viera as a playable race take issue with you giving flimsy reasons why they shouldn’t be, or caveats to their inclusion that were never an issue to begin with.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

I think one of the weirder parts of this thread is the simple fact that some of the most vocal supporters for the addition of female hrothgar are coming here to point out why male viera supposedly can't be added.

So it's all rather strange to me. Especially since I bet if people went to the female hrothgar thread to list reasons why they should not be added, it probably wouldn't be taken very well.

My Lord, Im just one Person.
Unless somebody else came in that I somehow missed...
Otherwise Im not sure if Im worried or impressed I can cause such an Indirect callout.

And even if it will never be clear even if I try my hardest, Ill still say it again-and-again.
My argument isn't that Viera Cant be added. Its not up to me, or anybody else here.
I personally dont think that Male Viera should be put into XIV before their own main game. However, if done right, and not lazily, I might support it.

If anybody wants to make a case or give their take against Female Horthgar, please do.
This isn't a challenge, but me imploring you, it doesn't matter what others think; you have an opinion like everyone else, and you shouldn't be afraid of pushback, or encouraged by upvotes. If you have a thought to share, share it. Nobody should motivate you to speak, except yourself.

Are you...really surprised that coming into the “support male viera thread” and saying “I don’t think they should be added to the game” sparks debate...?

I really don’t think I can break it down any further for you why people took issue with your opinions and reasons for having them. Nobody took you to task over not wanting them to be lazy. You were asked why you think they’d suddenly be lazy with male viera enough to think that’s a valid reason to be concerned about their inclusion in the game. You also brought up that they’d have to take into account player characters, which they don’t. Do I really have to keep repeating your own points to you? It’s a pain on mobile.

You’re certainly entitled to share your opinion like anyone else here. Just please stop getting slack-jawed when people in a thread about wanting male viera as a playable race take issue with you giving flimsy reasons why they shouldn’t be, or caveats to their inclusion that were never an issue to begin with.

No, Im surprised that me asking for a non-lazy way to include Male Viera has gotten as much pushback as it does. And pretty confused how my main point is constantly ignored.
No, I didnt say they have to, the suggestion is the smallest thing of just making mention that Male Viera have joined the outside world. Then the player characters and NPCs running around wouldnt have the whole "rarity" inconsistency. And saying to just ignore it it doesnt matter is just lazy. Im asking for things to not be lazy...and you wanna fight me on that despite thinking the devs wont be lazy. Which...still makes no sense.

And I never once made an argument that Male Viera should NOT be in the game. I said I personally dont think they should be in the game.
I dont even think I once made the argument "Lore is the reason we cant have Male Viera" Not once. Reading this out load I know people will say its the same thing....
The difference to make here, is that I have never made an argument to explain why we CANT have Male Viera.
Never once made that argument. So Im pretty slacked jawed that people come at me arguing about something I never argued once.