To those that say FF14 is not a big dog in MMO's

[Y2K21]

You seem like you really dont like what that site reveals

No, its just you can look at other portions of the site and see different numbers. Top Growth doesnt share the same numbers with Total Active Players? Why?

If the numbers are completely accurate and all based on the same estimations -- then the number for total active players should be the same. So why does FF14 in the Top MMO category boast 2.36M active players on one list then drop to 400k when speaking about month growth (speaking for total population)?

For number sake -- the same growth list has WoW Retail at 2.11M on MMO Growth.

Even if you want to do the "Well its total active sub" -- then that list basically says that while people have active subs that only a fraction of people are actively playing in the previous month. If you do the math that means according to MMO-Population:

FF14's Active Player to Active Sub Ratio: is 19.4%
WoW's Active Player to Active Sub Ratio: is 64.7%

You could make the argument of content drought, but so is WoW currently. 9.1 for WoW is basically unknown currently for a release date and this is prime time to see sub drops from an extended release patch. People have already complained about lack of casual content and lack of will to do hefty grinds.

But -- if you want to tout the numbers of a website as this hierarch of truth: be prepared to use the full website and not only one part to get forum upvotes. We can clap for FF14 having a 10 in total active sub/total sub ever number -- but then have to eat the fact that apparently the game only has less than 1/5 of those active subs playing.

[Vahlnir]

No, its just you can look at other portions of the site and see different numbers. Top Growth doesnt share the same numbers with Total Active Players? Why?

If the numbers are completely accurate and all based on the same estimations -- then the number for total active players should be the same. So why does FF14 in the Top MMO category boast 2.36M active players on one list then drop to 400k when speaking about month growth (speaking for total population)?

For number sake -- the same growth list has WoW Retail at 2.11M on MMO Growth.

Even if you want to do the "Well its total active sub" -- then that list basically says that while people have active subs that only a fraction of people are actively playing in the previous month. If you do the math that means according to MMO-Population:

FF14's Active Player to Active Sub Ratio: is 19.4%
WoW's Active Player to Active Sub Ratio: is 64.7%

You could make the argument of content drought, but so is WoW currently. 9.1 for WoW is basically unknown currently for a release date and this is prime time to see sub drops from an extended release patch. People have already complained about lack of casual content and lack of will to do hefty grinds.

But -- if you want to tout the numbers of a website as this hierarch of truth: be prepared to use the full website and not only one part to get forum upvotes. We can clap for FF14 having a 10 in total active sub/total sub ever number -- but then have to eat the fact that apparently the game only has less than 1/5 of those active subs playing.

One thing to understand about current WoW is that the progression systems are basically holding players' subs hostage with how long things take, and their fear of falling behind is a major factor. Just because they have more subs and a more active player base, doesn't mean their game is actually in a good place. Luckily I saw the most recent expansion for what it was immediately, but it was blatantly obvious what their goal was...and it wasn't fun content.

[Awha]

One thing to understand about current WoW is that the progression systems are basically holding players' subs hostage with how long things take, and their fear of falling behind is a major factor. Just because they have more subs and a more active player base, doesn't mean their game is actually in a good place. Luckily I saw the most recent expansion for what it was immediately, but it was blatantly obvious what their goal was...and it wasn't fun content.

To be honest I do enjoy this current expansion though the progression aspect is annoying, and does ruin what I would say is an enjoyable experience for the most part personally.

[Vahlnir]

To be honest I do enjoy this current expansion though the progression aspect is annoying, and does ruin what I would say is an enjoyable experience for the most part personally.

To each their own. I just wanted no part in the current state of things.

[Awha]

To each their own. I just wanted no part in the current state of things.

I get that many of the systems are annoying and damaging to the players. Granted these systems also do not help the fact they are really behind in terms of putting out content. That is my major beef with the expansion.

[Y2K21]

One thing to understand about current WoW is that the progression systems are basically holding players' subs hostage with how long things take, and their fear of falling behind is a major factor. Just because they have more subs and a more active player base, doesn't mean their game is actually in a good place. Luckily I saw the most recent expansion for what it was immediately, but it was blatantly obvious what their goal was...and it wasn't fun content.

You may have had a point with this when AP was more actively a role in: but the only thing that is holding people hostage is their will to continuously grind out gear.

What exactly are you falling behind in? There isnt this rush-rush to grind Azerite Power or else be behind in levels for when you needed the ilvl or the level floor to use powers. Anima just unlocks cosmetics. Renown isnt hard to grind and the covenant campaign is over -- meaning all that remains is cosmetic worth. Soul Ash is completely useless after one max legendary. Maw doesnt really matter unless you are at your top gear and serves as a Stygia dump.

To me, this is probably been the most relaxed I've been in WoW ever to where I dont have to log in every day or else I am behind in some system.

But to me -- if people are honestly claiming that 2 million players are actively grinding out M+, raiding, and PvP at the same time to be on the loot treadmill for Great Vault, then that sounds suspicious simply because being progress in all three areas would require to be a hardcore player (upon which even hardcore players tend to not do all three areas in progressive format). Are we honestly going to dishonestly claim that 2 million+ players are whale, hardcore players just actively pushing content? It makes us no better than the hardcore WoW players that say "All people who play FF14 are just super-casual players who want to sit around Limsa and ERP all day" -- and considering the fact of the issues with Group Finder being purged of brothels for gil; wouldnt that strengthen the argument?

Regardless: The argument is MMO-Populations are projections based upon monopoly money things. Again any website that touts that dead games with no servers have a playerbase have no reason to be taken seriously. If one of their statistics is "how popular is their subreddit/forums" -- it might as well be considered troll.

So to me its down to this:
1) MMO-Population's metric make no sense and shouldnt be used by anything other than measuring trends.

OR

2) MMO-Population's numbers are correct -- but FF14 somehow has worse player retention per active sub than a WoW that has been touted to be worse than WoD/BFA and is entering in a content drought after its initial patch; but also that FF14 has a smaller active playerbase than both WoW Classic and Old School Runescape via MMO-P's MMO Growth page.

I know which one is probably the easiest one to choose here.

[Nayout]

"All people who play FF14 are just super-casual players who want to sit around Limsa and ERP all day"

And you are not without reason, it is a matter of seeing how the OP spends more praising FFXIV and throwing shit at Wow in the forums than playing FFXIV. it is a recurring profile in all the people with the same narrative of FFXIV good / Wow Bad. People who do not complete or attempt to complete content on FFXIV.

[linayar]

To me, this is probably been the most relaxed I've been in WoW ever to where I dont have to log in every day or else I am behind in some system.

Yeah, this should've been a good time to play WoW for me. But whereas I made to endgame and at least completed all the LFR tiers up to Azshara in BfA with at least one character and had multiple level 120 characters overall, I couldn't even get past level 55 and the second leveling zone on one character in Shadowlands. I ended up unsubscribing from WoW recently and will just wait and see if anything will interest me enough to pick it back up and get through the leveling or if I'll just skip this expansion altogether.

And you are not without reason, it is a matter of seeing how the OP spends more praising FFXIV and throwing shit at Wow in the forums than playing FFXIV. it is a recurring profile in all the people with the same narrative of FFXIV good / Wow Bad. People who do not complete or attempt to complete content on FFXIV.

How would you even substantiate that claim? Can you even tell how long a person spends on the forum vs the game?

[Nayout]

How would you even substantiate that claim? Can you even tell how long a person spends on the forum vs the game?

Mounts, forum registration, fflogs, etc.
You can investigate people with these things

In any case it was simply an exaggeration, do not take it so literally.

[Y2K21]

And you are not without reason, it is a matter of seeing how the OP spends more praising FFXIV and throwing shit at Wow in the forums than playing FFXIV. it is a recurring profile in all the people with the same narrative of FFXIV good / Wow Bad. People who do not complete or attempt to complete content on FFXIV.

No its just the biggest joke is literally the MMO Growth tab for player growth just literally keeps track of the FF14 subreddit as some calculation of player population.

So according to the website: The MMO Growth page shows the change in players in an MMO over the last 30 days. This is useful to see spikes in popularity, to see if an MMO is trending downwards, etc.

So according to todays numbers:
1) FF14 has 459.27k active players
2) WoW has 2.11 active players

Scroll over to Reddit and look at the population tabs:
1) FF14 subreddit has 459k members
2) WoW subreddit has 2.1m members.

Summary -- MMO-Population is garbage. Dont use it.