To those that say FF14 is not a big dog in MMO's

[Nayout]

It's most common among people that migrated from WoW to this game a long time ago; It's kind of like when someone still has feelings for an ex that they have trouble admitting to, and compensate by disparaging their ex or trying to make them jealous..

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...g-dog-in-MMO-s
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...because-my-god
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-not-announced
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-at-this-point

Plus
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...rtuned-for-LFR

[Kacho_Nacho]

Personally, I think any MMO which can boast of over a million active players is a "big dog." Trying to say FFXIV isn't is like saying Dr. Pepper isn't big because Coke is bigger.

[Vahlnir]

Personally, I think any MMO which can boast of over a million active players is a "big dog." Trying to say FFXIV isn't is like saying Dr. Pepper isn't big because Coke is bigger.

Dr. Pepper is king in my eyes.

[Ralph2449]

If you're playing FFXIV instead of WoW for the raids...you may be doing it wrong, imo. Just sayin'...

I find FF14 raids to be far more enjoyable because a MAJOR part of an mmorpg is immersion, the fights often are designed in such a way and with such animations that you feel being part of them, I still remember when Niddhog falls down on the platform and causes a mini earthquake that makes you FEEL his weight or Susano's giant sword. Plus the realistic and non cartoony graphics helps a lot with that aspect.

WoW on the other hand has chosen to abandon everything for the sake of performance, so no cool graphics cuz omg they might obstruct the view of someone D:, WoW raids are just so silly model you are there to kill for loot, it never feels immersive or epic because they chose to design with performance and clarity in mind to pander to their l33t crowed rather than immersion which was always meant to be a core part of mmorpg. (Sadly though since some use the game just to raid log and falsely inflate their egos, of course they wont care about such "casual" aspects)

Because FF 14 REALLY needs a Raider.io type database to abuse, humiliate and denigrate players along with dps meters.

Thank you, NO.

Definitely a valid concern, raider.io has turned WoW pugging into suffering, especially for latecomers or casuals who have no hope to join or get geared unless they buy boosts by buying WoW tokens with irl money(Very profitable scheme).

Though like some other said FF14 has a better defense against such systems, a far superior report/GM system since they actually hire Gms to punish ToS violators, a more casual minded community that will not welcome tryhard elitists who might try spreading the io score mentality but more importantly unlike WoW, FF14 has ways for casuals to get gear so they arent forced to do mythic 14-15s/mythic raid for gear else they are 30ilvls behind.

A m+ system could make dungeons feel more fun, especially trash between bosses since many are kinda boring but I do agree that they should be extremely careful, even with the current design it isnt impossible for a raider.io scenario to slowly creep in and ruin the community if left unopposed though I am hopeful that because the devs understand the problems of toxicity they might try to shut down or hide data from such sites so they dont truly pick up much. Also do we know each other, cuz i just read the past few posts xD

FFXIV is no where near 700k-1mil. Don't know where you are getting this information. FFXIV is currently sitting around the 2.5mil mark.

https://mmo-population.com/r/ffxiv/

WoW is currently at about 3.1mil.

https://mmo-population.com/r/wow/

You have to look at the chart of active players. Not the "Estimated" # you see at the top of the page.

https://mmo-population.com/top/2021

Another important page that can be found is the activity score, with WoW activity being at 3 while FF14 being at 10.

Which makes sense simply by noticing the amount of people who have said they havent played for weeks or months yet still are subbed because they fell for the 6month sub mount trick or because they recently subbed and realized the game is trash so they wasted a month's sub for nothing

[Y2K21]

As much as people want to clutch to MMO Population for numbers --

That website uses a combo of online social activity, sentiment tracking, public statistics, rankings and more MMO Populations estimates the total subscribers, players and active daily players for the top MMOs.

Basically the number is meaningless and as valuable as Monopoly money. This should also come to the fact that WoW Classic shares a subscription with WoW Retail -- meaning that WoW Classic would share the same active player roster with WoW Retail since players have access to both and a subscription to both. (Which would give classic a score of 10 for having a 13% playerbase to account ratio)

Also the website also highlights games like Wildstar as having an active playerbase -- when the game has no active servers to play and is unplayable.

Another point: You can look at Most Growth and see different numbers for both games in said areas as well. Apparently FF14 only hovers around 400k in the past 30 days while WoW hangs around 2.11 million.

Their numbers just arent accurate to their other measurements.

[Ralph2449]

As much as people want to clutch to MMO Population for numbers --

You seem like you really dont like what that site reveals

That website uses a combo of online social activity, sentiment tracking, public statistics, rankings and more MMO Populations estimates the total subscribers, players and active daily players for the top MMOs.

Also the website also highlights games like Wildstar as having an active playerbase -- when the game has no active servers to play and is unplayable.

You literally described how the online algorithms they use work and then tried to say wildstar shows an active population as somekind of an argument which you literally invalidated by explaining how it works, unless you either dont understand how those algorithms work or you are trying to desperately invalidate the evidence you dont like.

Yes they are both estimates created from algorithms and online bots that scour the internet for a number of things, articles, word combination and sentiment, number of said word combination and sentiment and more, so obviously they are trying to capture through things that suggest popularity, numbers and sentiment, none of which are exact sub numbers because companies dont release those but it is the next best thing, and because all the other data they search through is public. So of course it makes sense that wildstar mentions could result in the algorithms thinking it is an active game, because even if it has died(Because it pandered to elitists), people still to this day talk about it as lessons for devs and what to avoid.


Since they use the same algorithm for FF14 and WoW and everything else, even if the numbers arent extremely accurate, the comparisons between the data and results of those games is very accurate because the same process has been followed for both, and if anything people who know those games know how valid the data is because the algorithm has created what we know in WoW's peaks and valleys which as seen by the community, shadowland's dropoff was enormous and the data also confirms that.

Whenever you like it or not WoW is surviving on addicts, elitists and whales but I wonder how sustainable that is for the future, for now it is absolutely way more profitable than FF14, but profitable=/=good game.

[Penthea]

Whenever you like it or not WoW is surviving on addicts, elitists and whales but I wonder how sustainable that is for the future, for now it is absolutely way more profitable than FF14, but profitable=/=good game.

You made very good points up to here. I don't like WoW anymore and have not for a long time, but this does not mean I don't acknowledge that there are people who genuinely enjoy the game who don't fall into the categories you listed. Sure less enjoy it now, but it doesn't mean all who are left who still do have some manner of problematic behaviour.

[Awha]

Dr. Pepper is king in my eyes.

Mellow Yellow FTW

[Ralph2449]

You made very good points up to here. I don't like WoW anymore and have not for a long time, but this does not mean I don't acknowledge that there are people who genuinely enjoy the game who don't fall into the categories you listed. Sure less enjoy it now, but it doesn't mean all who are left who still do have some manner of problematic behaviour.

Oh there will always be people who like something even if everyone else doesnt, nothing wrong with that, but I am getting the feeling people the amount of people who genuinely like WoW is dwindling leaving mainly people who are too invested/sunk cost fallacy to ever leave no matter how much they despise or hate the game, that behavior is sadly pretty commonplace in WoW these days.

[Theodric]

There's also the simple fact that as people grow older, their tastes change. No game is going to hold somebody's attention for all of eternity.

WoW stopped interesting me years ago for various reasons. Rather than be bitter about that, I look back on the good memories I have during the glory days and focus on what I enjoy in the present.

If and when FFXIV reaches a point where it stops engaging me altogether, I'll just find something else to do or play.