To those that say FF14 is not a big dog in MMO's

[Xatsh]

Alot of WoW's population now is remnants of when it had nearly 10million subs. Like all mmos games bleed subs as it ages. When you have a mmo like WoW that releases one trash expansion after another. You lose alot of subs fast. FFXI did this with the launch of abysea as well cost then 40% of their sub base in like a 6 month period.

WoW had 10million at its peak now down to probably 2.5-3million. so a 75% loss in subs. FFXIV has been around the 700k-1million mark for a while... so stagnate growth basically new players are matching those quitting.

WoW is still bigger then anyone else, but honestly I do not think they are the TOP mmo that should be copied anymore. They are only so big now because of how big they were when they were actually doing things right, takes along time for all those subs with 10s of thousands of hours invested to quit. If anything people should be looking at WoW now and saying what are they doing wrong to lose the majority of their sub base like that.

[EtherRose]

WoW had 10million at its peak now down to probably 2.5-3million. so a 75% loss in subs. FFXIV has been around the 700k-1million mark for a while... so stagnate growth basically new players are matching those quitting.

FFXIV is no where near 700k-1mil. Don't know where you are getting this information. FFXIV is currently sitting around the 2.5mil mark.

https://mmo-population.com/r/ffxiv/

WoW is currently at about 3.1mil.

https://mmo-population.com/r/wow/

You have to look at the chart of active players. Not the "Estimated" # you see at the top of the page.

[LittleImp]

FFXIV is no where near 700k-1mil. Don't know where you are getting this information. FFXIV is currently sitting around the 2.5mil mark.

https://mmo-population.com/r/ffxiv/

WoW is currently at about 3.1mil.

https://mmo-population.com/r/wow/

You have to look at the chart of active players. Not the "Estimated" # you see at the top of the page.

That website is clickbait with bad methodology and has been widely criticized in multiple game communities for their numbers more or less being completely made up. Not a credible source whatsoever. None of the numbers that website supposedly has access to, such as daily logins, are accessible to anyone except SE.

The best census work with a well document methodology we have to go on is via Lucky Bancho. Here's the FFXIV census as of 2/7/2021

[Vahlnir]

That website is clickbait with bad methodology and has been widely criticized in multiple game communities for their numbers more or less being completely made up. Not a credible source whatsoever. None of the numbers that website supposedly has access to, such as daily logins, are accessible to anyone except SE.

The best census work with a well document methodology we have to go on is via Lucky Bancho. Here's the FFXIV census as of 2/7/2021

If I'm reading it right, that's still a respectable number. FF XIV's population has never been the absolute biggest, but I'd say it's one of the most loyal fan bases.

[Dzian]

I find FF14 raids to be far more enjoyable because a MAJOR part of an mmorpg is immersion, the fights often are designed in such a way and with such animations that you feel being part of them, I still remember when Niddhog falls down on the platform and causes a mini earthquake that makes you FEEL his weight or Susano's giant sword. Plus the realistic and non cartoony graphics helps a lot with that aspect.

There's certinly a little truth to this but at the same time fight design and animations is often one of the biggest immersion breakers.

If we take Susano for example that big sword screen shaking smash. Sure it can look cool but there's this huge disconnect between whats actually happening and what you see. It's realistically possible to stand right under that sword smash and live because the animations while nice, are heavily out of sync with the rest of the gameplay. There's thousands of examples of times where you can quite literally stand in the stupid and be fine because the damage was already calculated before you stepped into it.

This leads to a huge disconnect for many people because it smahses that sense of immersion when you get hit by something you were visually a malm away from and something you're stood right in the middle of doesn't even touch you. absolute immersion breaker.

If I'm reading it right, that's still a respectable number. FF XIV's population has never been the absolute biggest, but I'd say it's one of the most loyal fan bases.

While there's some loyalty there, for many players it also does a pretty good job of showing the rate at which 14 loses players. The population you see in those censuses tends not to fluctuate very much over time but when you consider the ever increasing number of new players the game pulls in.. 4 million, 5 million, 6 million, 8 million, 10 million, 12 million.... ever increasing. Yet ths population always remains about the same which is why many people say the game struggles because for every million players it pulls in, it effectively bleeds another million right out.. Which is where the sentiment about the games lack of longevity often stems from..

Which also adds fuel to the ever growing number of people getting tired of the same old repeatable pattern of content, the boring treadmill and any number of other arguemnets. accessibility and over simplification has taken away a lot of that Final Fantasy depth and magic and a lot of players get bored very quickly because simple stuff just isn't engaging, satisfying or rewarding.. "Yay I got a new pair of gloves." but at the same time "Meh I'll just throw them away next week....." Not very satisfying gameplay is it when everything you get is ultimately just rubbish?

The longest players tend to stick around for reasons less about the game andmore about the players.. I have some great friends some I've known since playing FFXI 20 years ago andi can still have fun hanging out with those guys occassionally. The fun isnt so much the game, it's the banter and jokes we crack between ourelves.. I know a good few people with a similar mindset.

But that comes back to new players as well.. I think one of the bigger factors determining how long new players stick around is governed less by the game itself and more by any social connections they makewhile playing.

[ReynTime]

which also adds fuel to the ever growing number of people getting tired of the same old repeatable pattern of content and boring treadmill and any number of other arguemnets. accessibility and over simplification has taken away a lot of that final fantasy depth and magic and a lot of players get bored quite quickly because simple stuff isnt engaging, satisfying or rewarding.. "Yay i got a new pair of gloves". but at the same time "meh i'll just throw them away next week....." not very satisfying gameplay is it when everything you get is just rubbish.

the longest players tend to stick around for reasons less aboyt the game andmore about the players.. i have some great friends some i've known since playing ff11 20 years ago andi can still have fun hanging out with those guys occassionally. the fun isnt so much the game it's the banter and jookes we crack between ourelves.. and i know a good few people with a similar mindset.

but that comes back to new players as well.. i think one of the bigger factors determining how long new players stick around is governed less by the game and more by any social connections they make..

I kind of agree with this.
I try to do everything I can in the game, but that's mostly to be helpful to friends I play with. I noticed I have a lot more fun replaying the ARR and Heavensward content than anything of the endgame, and that's because I just don't connect with the hyperfocus on accessibility the game had since 2019. I would have unsubbed and just wait for Endwalker if I wasn't hanging with friends in the game.

[VelKallor]

I noticed I have a lot more fun replaying the ARR and Heavensward content than anything of the endgame, and that's because I just don't connect with the hyperfocus on accessibility the game had since 2019.

You'd have content and gameplay LESS accessible?

Why?

[linayar]

While there's some loyalty there, for many players it also does a pretty good job of showing the rate at which 14 loses players. The population you see in those censuses tends not to fluctuate very much over time but when you consider the ever increasing number of new players the game pulls in.. 4 million, 5 million, 6 million, 8 million, 10 million, 12 million.... ever increasing. Yet ths population always remains about the same which is why many people say the game struggles because for every million players it pulls in, it effectively bleeds another million right out.. Which is where the sentiment about the games lack of longevity often stems from..

And that is why the number of current active players is largely irrelevant as long as it's not in constant decline and people are generally able to find other players to complete (at least the main) contents.

Beyond that, total registered accounts, the metric that SE is willing to publicly show and celebrate, is good enough to show that the game has enough interests for the company to continue investing in and for potential new players to also try. These new players may stay or they may not, but as long as the game can keep a healthy influx of new players while retaining enough of the old players (including cyclical players that unsubscribe then come back either every major patch or every expansion), then they are on the right path, in my opinion.

[Vahlnir]

And that is why the number of current active players is largely irrelevant as long as it's not in constant decline and people are generally able to find other players to complete (at least the main) contents.

Beyond that, total registered accounts, the metric that SE is willing to publicly show and celebrate, is good enough to show that the game has enough interests for the company to continue investing in and for potential new players to also try. These new players may stay or they may not, but as long as the game can keep a healthy influx of new players while retaining enough of the old players (including cyclical players that unsubscribe then come back either every major patch or every expansion), then they are on the right path, in my opinion.

Pretty much. And this is why they may do better than WoW eventually. Meanwhile, the Blizzard devs want to design the game for themselves, not the player base, and seem perfectly content to let any and all players leave because to heck with them. That is a dark road.