A potential rework to the level-sync system.

[Jojoya]

I have and always will think we should keep our skills while level synced. Perhaps even a box we can check just like min ilvl is selectable

1) Synced Weapon damage will normalize the damage at lower levels.

Not every action is a weaponskill that scales off weapon damage.

Standard Step says Hi. It's incredibly devastating at low levels, and that's just one example.

2) The content we are talking about is old, and outdated. Who honestly cares if we steamroll it?

Those who are new to the content and doing it for the first time? Those who want to see those new players having a good experience?

Making things too easy leads to boredom and negligence because there's no need to learn the most effective ways to use your abilities. Then you put the player into much more difficult content and they're in trouble because they've developed lazy habits.

If you don't like the current level sync system, don't do content that requires level sync. Stick to content your level, or do the content unsynced and solo/with friends. No one is going to object to you facerolling your way through The Vault solo.

[Mikey_R]

Not every action is a weaponskill that scales off weapon damage.

Standard Step says Hi. It's incredibly devastating at low levels, and that's just one example.

Weapon damage affects the damage of everything you do, not just weapon skills. This means an increase in weapon damage will also increase the damage of standard step etc.

The reason Standard step is so absurdly strong is because of its very very high potency for level 15. If we use Sastasha at level 15, the lowest level you can go into a dungeon and compare the potencies of abilities.

Dragoon's strongest skill is Vorpal Thrust at 350. Monk has a 200 auto Crit (call it 350 potency again, 1.5x crit damage to be generous), Ninja, Gust Slash 340, Samurai has Jinpu at 340 (call it 352 with the buff), I could go on.

However, Standard Step is a 1000 potency AoE attack with a 75% dropoff for the other enemies (so a 250 potency attack if I am interpreting the tooltip correctly) and it is only on a 30 second cooldown. This is close to 3 times as strong as a melee's strongest hit at the time. This is also the perfect example as to how quickly a level 80 toolkit will just decimate enemies.

Samurai's Tenka Goken is a 540 potency attack with no drop off, Dragoon has 600 potency Stardiver and 400 potency Nastrond and 300 potency Gieskogul, ninjas Mudras, Summoners incredible damage with DoTs, summons etc, BLM will melt things with flare and foul, the list goes on. Obviously, alot of these are just the raw potencies and do not take into account any buffs the jobs use.

[Kanosi1980]

I've played MMORPG's since 2001, but I've most recently played WoW. What I don't like about WoW leveling dungeons is that you blow through the trash without even executing a full rotation or feeling like you should blow any CD's. I like that in FF14 I can execute a full rotation multiple times before the trash dies, encouraging use of offensive and defensive CD's (if a tank).

Coming from someone who just lost sprout status, please don't nerf the dungeons. Part of what has made me useful in harder difficulties in raids and trials is having to learn mob and boss mechanics and practice my rotations and good CD use in leveling trials and dungeons.

[Intellion]

Not every action is a weaponskill that scales off weapon damage.

Standard Step says Hi. It's incredibly devastating at low levels, and that's just one example.


Those who are new to the content and doing it for the first time? Those who want to see those new players having a good experience?

Making things too easy leads to boredom and negligence because there's no need to learn the most effective ways to use your abilities. Then you put the player into much more difficult content and they're in trouble because they've developed lazy habits.

If you don't like the current level sync system, don't do content that requires level sync. Stick to content your level, or do the content unsynced and solo/with friends. No one is going to object to you facerolling your way through The Vault solo.

Again, as I've stated before, arguments like these would make more sense if said outdated content we're talking about were actually challenging with level and skill sync and actually required you to play optimally with level-appropriate rotations.

However, such a challenge doesn't even exist since synced veterans' ilvls still end up turning synced content into a brainless steamroll. The only literal difference will be that under the current system, veterans are spamming a few buttons over and over. With my suggestion, they at least get to use whatever skill they want to alleviate even some of the boredom. Would mobs die faster? Perhaps. But let's not fool ourselves here: with the current system, mobs already melt super fast anyways the moment synced veterans enter the fray.

So again, I'll dare point out that the thing that the no-crowd are trying to defend (balance/challenge in outdated content) doesn't even exist in the first place, so what exactly are they arguing for? With or without skill sync, said outdated content are brainless stomps anyways, so again, I say just let the veterans use all of their skills to at least alleviate some of their boredom and at least give them a sense of progression.

And again, no one is calling for the removal of level sync, only skill sync. Hence, I don't understand either why the no-crowd keeps throwing the "Don't do content that requires level sync" phrase. That completely ruins the point.

No, no one's asking for Lv. 80 powerhouses to be thrown into roulettes as is. We already have undersized parties for that. All we're asking for is to at least let us have fun gameplay-wise and allow us to use our full kit even when we are level-synced. Because let's be honest, even if you reach the endgame, most of this game's content will be synced (since most of the time, you'll be doing roulettes for tomes and money or older FATEs for relic stuff), and most of the time we don't even get to enjoy the Lv. 80 kits that we worked hard to attain.


And again, I'll dare to use the community itself to argue against the current system:

If the current skill sync that we have now is truly "healthy" for both the gameplay and the community, then why do most people turn it off via undersized parties when given the chance in Party Finder the moment the situation allows for it? If people truly enjoyed the "challenging" outdated content that we have now, then why do nearly all veterans AND sprouts just bumrush to the finish line instead of taking in the sights and exploring slowly and carefully? If players truly found forced skill sync so "engaging" in old content, then why do so many people play Blue Mage?

I don't know, but based on what I'm personally seeing in the community, I think the game will be far better off if we did away with forced skill sync on level-synced content.

[BlitzAceRush]

If the current skill sync that we have now is truly "healthy" for both the gameplay and the community, then why do most people turn it off via undersized parties when given the chance in Party Finder the moment the situation allows for it? If people truly enjoyed the "challenging" outdated content that we have now, then why do nearly all veterans AND sprouts just bumrush to the finish line instead of taking in the sights and exploring slowly and carefully? If players truly found forced skill sync so "engaging" in old content, then why do so many people play Blue Mage?

Just going to respond to this:
People's use of undersized has nothing to do with weather or not syncing is good or bad, the sync system is in place so people's first time through is as close to the ways the dev's intended as can be, undersized is there for someone to engage in content how they wish.
Your point also doesn't really stand up, you say "why do most people turn it off via undersized parties in party finder the moment the situation allows for it?" Well the situation allows for it right away, you could just clear everything unsynced your first time through, get some friends or randoms in party finder and clear your way to victory, mowing down everything with your full kit always. If what you say was true, the duty roulette would be empty and the party finder bursting with dungeon and normal mode parties ready to unsync their way through content.
However that's not the case at all, the duty finder is active and always popping while its rare to ever see a regular dungeon or normal mode trial in the party finder unless it's an unsynced farm or (ironically) BLU going in synced for the log/spells.

I've got everything at 80 and I'm fine with the system, is it a bit dull if I get a low level dungeon? Kinda but it really doesn't bother me too much, the only thing I'd change is letting all dps have some form of their aoe at lower levels, but otherwise I wouldn't want my full kit kept, because I know it would go one of two ways.
1: I'm putting in level 80 effort, but getting back level 24 results.
2: The level 24 might as well go make a snack because no matter how furiously they press those three buttons, they'll never keep up with me.

As for "It's not balanced anyway! Why bother!?" Just because something isn't perfect, doesn't mean you destroy it utterly, we're already too strong when synced down, the last thing they should do is make that worse.

[Jojoya]

If the current skill sync that we have now is truly "healthy" for both the gameplay and the community, then why do most people turn it off via undersized parties when given the chance in Party Finder the moment the situation allows for it? If people truly enjoyed the "challenging" outdated content that we have now, then why do nearly all veterans AND sprouts just bumrush to the finish line instead of taking in the sights and exploring slowly and carefully? If players truly found forced skill sync so "engaging" in old content, then why do so many people play Blue Mage?

Because they want to get their reward and get out as fast as possible from content they've already done dozens if not hundreds of times. Challenge has disappeared once you've done the content enough times.

Good job bringing up BLU because that's the best possible example of why skill sync is needed since BLU has no skill sync in any content.

It's okay for them to make that choice for themselves. It's not okay for them to make that choice for other players, especially when that's going to ruin the experience for new players doing the content for the first time. Most players like to feel their contribution means something when first doing the content. It's only once they've repeated it several times that they stop caring.

Low level content isn't there for your benefit. It's there for the benefit of players who are leveling and learning. Don't like the skill sync? Don't queue for low level content or roulettes that can put you into low level content. They don't offer any rewards that you can't get doing max level content outside of the dungeon specific gear and if you're after that, you're probably going to run it unsynced for speed repeats anyway. Stick to the Level 80 and Expert Roulettes.

[Deceptus]

Because they want to get their reward and get out as fast as possible from content they've already done dozens if not hundreds of times. Challenge has disappeared once you've done the content enough times.

Good job bringing up BLU because that's the best possible example of why skill sync is needed since BLU has no skill sync in any content.

BLU is a bad example because it's an apples to oranges comparison.

BLU's power comes in their ability to freeze enemies (trash) and then one shot them.

Otherwise, they're an under powered dps who has to cast 200 potency aoe (with dropoff). Go try to kill a group without ultravibration or any of the other one shot spells. It takes a bit to kill a pack.

If anything, it shows how keeping your skills CAN be done.

If one person is synced down from 80 an keeps their skills, the run will go faster. (if DPS)

If two people are synced down, the run will go really fast. (Especially if DPS), not so much if it's a tank and healer who are synced down.

If four people are synced down? Then no "newbie" is helped, you're doing old outdated content so again WHO CARES?

Just as an aside I want to mention this:

I routinely help people get their BLU spells Mind Blast and Glower. Those can be unsynced as the learn rate is 100%. I do this on my PLD.

Guess what?

I equip the ilvl 90 Curtana Nexus to kill the bosses and do you know why?

EVEN AT LVL 80 AN ILVL 90 ITEM CAN NOT ONE SHOT A LVL 15 BOSS WITH AUTO ATTACKS.

Now imagine what will happen when instead of the 53 damage Nexus weapon we have the 13 damage it would be synced down

I really think people are severely overthinking how powerful we are and how limiting weapon damage really is.

[Kemiko]

SNIP

BLU isn't even a real job. It's a Limited Job. It's not a good example of anything other than a job intended to be outside the norm.

And good job moving the goal post. Nothing here was brought up about weapon damage, just your job abilities in sync content. Higher level job abilities generally comes with higher potency, which translates to more damage. So, by default, if you kept these job abilities in content not intended for them to exist you'll be doing more than the intended damage. But wait, what if your potencies were reduced to compensate for this?

You will also have more job abilities than intended, allowing you more actions than intended. Using the worst offender, Sastasha with an at level player will be outshined by a lv80 player, even if said 80 was nerfed heavily to compensate. But, nerf them harder, I hear. In which case you're putting in a tremendous amount of effort to reach the average LV15 players state of play that not even on release max level Extreme trials demand. Very quickly people will question the purpose of being so heavily nerfed when the game is supposed to be a welcoming experience.

I really hate to say that I honestly agree with the "just don't do it then" sentiment as much as I think it's a poor answer to this discussion. As much as people would enjoy keeping their kit throughout the game, the fact of the matter is you do not in situations you agree to. You agree to a sync in a dungeon before you go in, you agree to a sync in a FATE before you participate in it, you agree to a sync for single-player duties if you happen to be overleveled when you attempt it. At no point are you forced to do any of this, even Main Scenario, if you really don't want to. And, at least outside of Main Scenario, you aren't missing anything for not doing it. You are granted incentive for sure, but let's not pretend we aren't privy to intention sync attempts to provide.

If you must do a low level dungeon, and you aren't agreeing to the rules of a roulette, you always do have the option to undersize it solo or with others looking to do the same. In the case of you going into a roulette and all involved are not new to the instance hardly means they aren't using it for the other incentives provided (such as boosted experience) and could still be at-level with the content. In the event all present are max level, you're just here for the tomes - we all know this and you knew what you signed up for. That's the nature of the deal.

[Deceptus]

I really hate to say that I honestly agree with the "just don't do it then" sentiment as much as I think it's a poor answer to this discussion. As much as people would enjoy keeping their kit throughout the game, the fact of the matter is you do not in situations you agree to. You agree to a sync in a dungeon before you go in, you agree to a sync in a FATE before you participate in it, you agree to a sync for single-player duties if you happen to be overleveled when you attempt it. At no point are you forced to do any of this, even Main Scenario, if you really don't want to. And, at least outside of Main Scenario, you aren't missing anything for not doing it. You are granted incentive for sure, but let's not pretend we aren't privy to intention sync attempts to provide.

Here's why the "Just don't do it" mindset doesn't work.

Fewer players in the roulettes results in higher queue times. Do you really want the return of 30 minute queues for dps players?

Veteran players need an incentive to queue for things that might not benefit them. IMHO being synced to content where you go from 24 buttons to 2 is more of a disincentive to queue for certain content.

[linayar]

Here's why the "Just don't do it" mindset doesn't work.

Fewer players in the roulettes results in higher queue times. Do you really want the return of 30 minute queues for dps players?

Veteran players need an incentive to queue for things that might not benefit them. IMHO being synced to content where you go from 24 buttons to 2 is more of a disincentive to queue for certain content.

I don't usually see 30-minute DPS queues with the system as is right now, so this particular argument doesn't make sense.

And as we've established, SE has other ways to incentivize running old contents.